AAACE-NLA: Are Fast Track GED Programs a Good Investment?

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The comments below were sent in response to an article in Vertex, an Online Journal of adult and workforce education, Vol 1, Issue 2, on a study of Virginia's GED Fast Track Program,"Race to GED." You'll find the article at: http://vawin.jmu.edu/vertex/article.php?v=1&i=2&a=1 The study's authors,Abbot L. Packard and Carol Chafin, offered the following conclusion:

"We can suggest that the fast track program had a positive affect on the five programs in the pilot study. For example, fast track students’ GED scores improved 23 points between 2003-2004 and 2004-2005. We speculate that the programs had developed curricula that were better meeting the needs of students in a short, intense program of study. Analysis of the qualitative data from each of the pilot sites would help increase the understand some of the changes the quantitative data pinpoint."

I have some concerns about Fast Track GED programs in light of the research John Tyler (NCSALL Researcher at Brown University, http://www.ncsall.net/index.php?id=61 ) has done on GED earnings, that those who are most ready to take the GED, the profile of Fast Track students, show the least gains in earnings after five years -- unless they use their GED to enter and complete a college certificate or degree program, in which case their earnings are comparable to h.s. graduates who complete a post-secondary education credential. Is this a longitudinal study which will capture earnings gains data of these participants over time? Does Virginia have reliable data match information from employers to determine employment and wages of participants in this study, or is this just information provided through follow-up interviews with participants, (often not valid data)? In light of Tyler's research states which put their limited GED preparation resources into fast track programs may be taking them from the harder-to-serve but more-likely-to-see-earnings-gains students who enter GED prep with lower scores. Your comments on these concerns would be most welcome.

David J. Rosen
djrosen@comcast.net
April 15, 2005

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: David Rosen DJRosen at theworld.com
Date: Wed Nov 23 10:34:15 EST 2005
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

AAACE-NLA Colleagues,

Several states are trying to increase the number of people who pass the GED. There are "fast track" states like Virginia, and "incentive" states like Tennessee, and others. It would appear to be a good idea to provide more resources for GED classes, and to pay for part or all of the test fees for students who cannot afford them, as Tennessee is doing, but I wonder if, in some cases, a "GED push" results in lower (barely passing) test scores for some of those who are urged to take the test too soon, before they have had any substantial instruction or study. If so, a push might defeat the goal of preparing GED holders to succeed in college -- unless they also do a college transition program after getting the GED. As it is, only a tiny percent of GED holders enroll and complete a college degree program, and without post secondary education, the GED has little or no economic impact, so if by rushing them to take the test we undermine their preparation for postsecondary education I think we aren't doing students any favors.

I wonder if anyone in states where the GED push is on has observations about how this affects performance on the GED or preparation for college. If so, please post here (or e-mail me privately).

David J. Rosen
Adult Literacy Advocate
DJRosen at theworld.com

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: ktamarkin at mcae.net
Date: Sun Nov 27 19:26:22 EST 2005
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

David,

When I taught GED classes, I often pushed students to take the test as soon as possible when I thought it made sense to do so. For example, if a student let me know that they had been in a GED prep program before and had quit because they had not been allowed to take the test or something came up in their private life before they could try to take the test, then I would push that student to take the test as soon as the pre-test showed they would pass. My thinking was that if the student failed again to even take a GED test, they might not try a third time. Another example were those students receiving unemployment benefits who might qualify for a training program if they could complete their GED quickly.

Kenny Tamarkin

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Daphne Greenberg alcdgg at langate.gsu.edu
Date: Mon Nov 28 08:26:57 EST 2005
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

I am fascinated by the statement that : "Kentucky also requires participants to pass the Official Practice Test before they can take the GED test." This seems like a good idea. Does anyone know if there is research to show that there is a strong correlation between performance on both tests? Also, do any other states require this?
Daphne

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Fran Tracy-Mumford fmumford45 at hotmail.com
Date: Mon Nov 28 09:26:55 EST 2005
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

What I say in this email is reflective only of Delaware and the lesson(s) we have been grappling with for the past two years.

I have found that sometimes we (educators and learners) lose sight of purpose -- short term goal vs long term purpose. When student lives are in crisis, as many are when they come back for the GED or high school diploma, they need the credential two yesterdays ago. As caring educators, we want to help them by moving them as quickly as possible to pass the GED Test or earn the credits for the diploma. We lose sight of learning for life and/or contextualizing teaching so that students can sustain the skills learned.

We can be successful with individuals on the "fast track" who are pushing as hard as they can to achieve the short term goal. What we do quite often when we accelerate learning is to provide instruction that is designed to "cram" skills into the shortest amount of time and the result after passing the test or earning the credit is that adult learners rapidly lose the content knowledge or skills gained to pass the test -- GED or final exam.

The short term goal of getting the GED or diploma is achieved; the long term purpose is not. Many students cannot perform needed functions beyond the day of the test. They have earned the GED Certificate/HS Diploma, but then it becomes a meaningless document. (Public schools have heard a great deal about the "obsolete diploma.")

We as adult educators need to come to grips with the moral dilemma of "getting a credential" quickly vs "understanding how to use the knowledge/skills" which takes longer. I firmly believe that we have a responsibility to provide instruction that enables our learners to be able to apply skills. When we enable and empower learners, they will pass the test and earn the credit and we have them with us longer. When we instruct for application, learners "know and can do" what we have taught and won't feel cheated by us later or caught short by not being able to use the skill when they need it. We must be able to explain the importance of what we are doing for them because they push and push hard for the short term goal.

Dr. Fran Tracy-Mumford,
Delaware Director, Adult Education.

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Debbie Yoho dwyoho at earthlink.net
Date: Mon Nov 28 11:37:39 EST 2005
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

David, just curious, why do you think a "GED push" is on?

"Turning Pages into Possibilities", Debbie

Deborah W. Yoho
Co-moderator, NIFL-Health Listserv
Executive Director, Greater Columbia Literacy Council
Past President, SC Adult Literacy Educators
2728 Devine Street, Columbia, SC 29205
803-765-2555 Fax 803-799-8417 dwyoho at earthlink.net

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From:Karen Limkemann trlakaren at yahoo.com
Date: Mon Nov 28 12:54:56 EST 2005
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

Here in Indiana we face the same dilemma. We don't want to "lose" people again so we try to get them test ready asap but but also recognize the need for training beyond HS/GED. While a large majority of our students (69% on a recent survey) indicated a desire to receive further training the most pressing need was to improve their employment situation. Most employers in this area require HS or GED To apply.

A catch 22 to be certain.

Karen Limkemann

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: David Rosen DJRosen at theworld.com
Date: Mon Nov 28 13:52:29 EST 2005
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

Hello Kenny, and others,

Both your examples seem to me to be cases where students should be encouraged by their teacher to take the GED as soon as they are ready. But the examples make clear that it is the teacher's discretion in urging that, not the result of a state funder's pressure for increased numbers of GED attainees. I would feel more comfortable with state "Fast Track" programs if were confident that they didn't explicitly or implicitly pressure students and teachers to get the GED as soon as possible, even with low passing scores, and if they provided post-GED transition-to-college programs for every GED and adult high school diploma holder. Can someone assure me?

Given what we know about the earnings value of the GED (it is insignificant unless a student continues on, enrolls in and completes at least a year of post-secondary education) why would a state push students to get their GED diploma or certificate? Why wouldn't the research by John Tyler and others (see http://wiki.literacytent.org/ index.php/GED_Research ) influence state policy makers to provide incentives for students to enter post-secondary preparation, if needed, and enter post-secondary education programs, ready to succeed?

David J. Rosen
DJRosen at theworld.com

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Debbie Yoho dwyoho at earthlink.net
Date: Mon Nov 28 16:41:39 EST 2005
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

SC also requirtes that the learner to pass the Practice Test before taking the GED. However, this applies to people enrolled in AE programs. There is nothing to prevent a non-enrolled adult to sign up to take the GED without taking the practice test.SC also requirtes that the learner to pass the Practice Test before taking the GED. However, this applies to people enrolled in AE programs. There is nothing to prevent a non-enrolled adult to sign up to take the GED without taking the practice test.

"Turning Pages into Possibilities", Debbie

GCLC is a community service of Volunteers of America of the Carolinas.

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Linda Hoover Linda.Hoover at lnbcc.org
Date: Mon Nov 28 16:52:16 EST 2005
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

Minnesota does not require the passing of practice tests, but the passing of tests is referred to in the age waiver information-see bolded information below. http://education.state.mn.us/mde/static/001738.pdf

Age Waiver Information
Minimum Age Requirements:
Age 19 as prescribed by Minnesota State Board of Education Rule 3500.3100. Minimum age requirement may be waived under certain circumstances when supporting documentation is submitted to and approved by the Minnesota Department of Education. For an Age Waiver Application form click on the form below or contact GED Testing at 651-582-8445 and one will be mailed to you. Circumstances that may warrant waiver of the minimum age requirement: ... _ Adult Basic Education (ABE) or another recognized educational, social service or correctional agency has indicated in writing on letterhead stationary that successful completion of the GED test battery is a written part of the applicant's personal educational plan AND that the applicant has passed three of the five Official GED Practice Tests with scores of 500 or higher (individual test scores required).

The Loring Nicollet-Bethlehem Community Center, where I work, pays the testing fee for students if the teacher has given them practice tests and believes that they are prepared to pass at least one of the official tests. No "hard" research!!
Linda Hoover

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: DJRosen at theworld.com
Date: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 07:22 AM
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

Hi Debbie,

Virginia has been pushing GED Fast Track as state policy, and other states and service providers (e.g. community colleges) such as Tennessee , Florida and Oklahoma also emphasize this. For example, if you Web search "GED" and "Fast Track," among the thousands of entries, you will find these in the first few pages:

http://www.mcctae.com/courses/ged.html

Tennessee http://www.pstcc.edu/community_relations/events/ged4.html

As Kenny points out, for some students fast-tracking may be a good idea, but when states or community colleges push fast-tracking to get more enrollments I get concerned that students may not be encouraged to hang in to get the skills they really need to succeed It may one reason that so few GED holders finish college.

All the best,

David

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Nathaniel Peacock
Date: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 03:48 PM
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

Hi David and all:

This is my first response to this list serve which I find quite interesting.

In response to the question of fast track GED programs, I think that perhaps we might want to look at fast track GED learners as individuals. I believe we should look at the goals of the individual as "more important" than the goals of the program. In many cases, adult education programs do not have the required funding to provide learners with all the "contextualized" learning that we may think are applicable. Learners will not be with us for 12 years and if lucky, we may have them for 12 weeks!

If an individual learner appears ready to take the GED and pass (with whatever score) the short term goal is accomplished. A goal which for however long increases one's self esteem and motivation towards self-sufficiency. In many cases, the parent's attainment of the GED equivalency supports the parent's role in motivating their children to stay in school.

It is my contention that program staff can do a much better job in assisting learners in developing both a short term and "medium" term focus on learning and life skill enhancement. This may allow the learner to have a focus on self improvement through post-program participation. In most programs, once the learner obtains a GED the program is over for that individual regardless of need for further individual and family development.

Unfortunately, with the waiting lists, lack of appropriate funding and the pressure to demonstrate "success"- adult education programs are many times in a situation where program staff have to say- NEXT!!

Nathaniel Peacock
Adult ESOL & Literacy-GED Program
Montgomery College
Wheaton Westfield South
11002 Veirs Mill Road, Suite 210
Wheaton, Maryland 20902
301.962.8928

From: "Lovit, Sheryl" <slovit@k12.somerville.ma.us>
Date: November 29, 2005 11:14:17 AM EST
Subject: Fast Track GED PRograms

I believe that students we are serving need a full body of knowledge before we push them into testing. We are not doing them any service by rushing the time they spend in class; they will not learn enough to carry them beyond the test taking experience. For example, many students struggle with math and learn just enough to pass the Math GED; they actually need more course work that will enable them to build on their basic skills (Algebra, specifically) if they are to enroll in community college or training programs. A seminar I attended at Network addressed that need (presented by an instructor from Maine) and spoke of the success that students had once they enrolled in community colleges after having the opportunity to do more coursework (pre-algebra and algebra).

Additionally, the students need to "learn" history and science if they are to have an educational foundation for studying those types of subjects at the CC level. Many students seem to be drawn to programs in the medical fields and they need a foundation in chemistry and biology if they are to be successful.

Although a fast track GED program will assist the young students that we are seeing, I am not a proponent of putting more $$$ into it. Students have a capacity to learn that piques at approximately 12 hours per week; I don't think that allocating more $$$ for more instructional hours is the best use of our resources.

Sheryl Lovit
SCALE/Somerville Public Schools
167 Holland St., Somerville, MA 02144
Phone: (617) 625-1335
FAX: (617) 623-8528

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: "tanya tweeton" <tweeton204 at yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 06:03:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject:RE: [AAACE-NLA] Fwd: Fast Track GED Programs

What if the GED standards for passing were toughened? Could this be a solution? Perhaps they are too easy to pass . This might force the students to take a while longer ,thereby increasing their knowledge of the subject areas? Just a thought.
Tanya Tweeton

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: "Salyer, Michael" <Michael.Salyer@dce.virginia.gov>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:06:59 -0500
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

I agree with Edith that being educated is a goal that every person should strive for. It is difficult to get students interested in education when what they really want is employment and security and sometime fail to see the connection until we demonstrate how they interrelate.

I think our GED students need more real life examples of how they can use the knowledge that we give them. I taught in the state prison system for 10 years and I know that my students (all males and all adults) were far more motivated and did exceedingly well when I paired their academic teachings with vocational experiences. Real life problems solved using math and science. I agree that rushing them out the door to achieve a number of completers is not in their best interest at all, but as an administrator I understand the pressures if funding and numbers. It can be a complicated dance.

Michael W. Salyer
Training and Development Coordinator
Department of Correctional Education
James Monroe Building 7th Floor
101 N. 14th Street
Richmond, Virginia 23219
Phone: 804-786-7749
Fax: 804-692-0946

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: "Mechem, Richard" <RMechem@doe.mass.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:05:58 -0500
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

I start with the premise, supported by research cited by David as well as others, that in order for a person to earn a truly family-sustaining income, she needs at least some post-secondary education; that she cannot access post-secondary education unless she has a high school credential; that if she did not graduate from high school, she must have a GED diploma to go to college and have any kind of a chance to properly support her family. Therefore the GED diploma---that piece of paper---is very, very important, and it is incumbent upon all of us working with ABE students to do everything in our power to maximize their chances of earning the GED diploma and going to college. The GED fast-track programs are an important component of this. These programs are not designed for those students whose literacy level is so low that they are not really ready to take the tests---those students require a completely different curriculum and program design.

The GED Fast-Track is for those students whose literacy level is already high enough for them to succeed on the tests---for the sake of argument, I call them the ones who need to get only three or four more questions right on a given test (that test is most often Math, sometimes Writing). These students need a program design that is individualized and focused (if all you need to pass is the Math, all you get is math), intense (15-20 hours a week), and of short duration (when you pass the tests, you're done). In Massachusetts there are programs (too few) that have used this design, and they work.

David, I feel that your quarrel is not with GED Fast-Track programs per se, but rather you are doubting the value of the GED diploma itself. I disagree strongly. If we are not working to assist every one of our students who is capable to get a GED diploma and go to college, we are sentencing them to a lifetime of poverty, no matter how noble our intentions.

Tom Mechem
GED State Chief Examiner
Massachusetts Department of Education
"GED to Ph.D."

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: "Jan Martin Bopp" <jbopp@adelphia.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:36:21 -0500
Subject: RE: [AAACE-NLA] Fwd: Fast Track GED Programs

I think that GED standards should be raised, certainly the minimal passing standards, with the hope that one's knowledge base would be improved accordingly. However, as important, if not more so, is the need for the standards to be broadened to accommodate or include the SCANS skills and EFF standards. If that were done, the attainment of a GED would be of greater personal and socioeconomic value. Conceivably, it would represent a more liberal educational grounding, more adaptable and transferable skills, improve sustainable employability, and encourage further educational endeavors, if not lifelong learning.

Jan Martin Bopp
Adult Education and Literacy Educator and Bridge-to-College Program Coordinator
The Tutorial Center
208 Pleasant Street
Bennington, VT 05201
802.447.0111 Ext. 108
802.447.7607 (Fax)

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: "Reeder, Nancy" <nreeder@pima.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:54:19 -0700
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

HI All,

At the Eastside Learning Center, Pima College Adult Ed, Tucson, we are going to experiment with a configuration which we hope will address the question that David has posed.

We will package an 11 or 12 week fast track GED program with a 1 credit Pima College class called College Success Skills. Students will go through the fast track program and, upon passing the GED and the COMPASS test (Pima's entrance test, be enrolled as credit students at Pima College. They will receive a scholarship to pay the tuition fee. We're curious to see how effective this type of 'package' is toward ensuring higher GED-to-college transition rates.

Nancy Reeder
Advanced Program Manager
Eastside Learning Center
Pima College Adult Education
1630 S. Alvernon
Tucson, AZ 85712
520/881-5520

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: "Janet Isserlis" <Janet_Isserlis@brown.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:10:29 -0500
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

Is it a question of raising the standards, per se, or of looking at the content, how it's used and what people are able to do with it? An earlier post spoke to the abilities one gains to take the test as opposed to the abilities one gains in terms of learning. Why is it that they appear to be mutually exclusive, and what - if any -might be the role of the External Diploma in all of this?

Janet Isserlis

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: "Mechem, Richard" <RMechem@doe.mass.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:24:34 -0500
Subject: RE: [AAACE-NLA] Fwd: Fast Track GED Programs

Jan,

Are you saying that the GED diploma does not have "personal and socioeconomic value"? I know plenty of GED graduates who would dispute that most vociferously.

Tom Mechem
GED State Chief Examiner
Massachusetts Department of Education
"GED to Ph.D."

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: "Brown, Charlene" <cbrown5@jefferson.k12.ky.us>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:38:44 -0500
Subject: RE: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

The research is clear that the maximum value of the GED is in using it to access future training. However, some of the research shows that having a GED is still better than having no credential at all.

While the GED recipient may not be ready to access training today, he probably will be soon, considering the realities of the modern workplace. In addition, many of those with no credential are barred from applying for many good paying jobs that require the credential irregardless of the skills level. In these cases, the GED is valuable.

Another side benefit of the GED is that it signals the recipients' family members that completing high school is important. This sometimes encourages their children to complete.

Therefore, while studies have proven the GED less valuable than a traditional high school diploma, it is still much better than nothing at all.

Charlene Brown,
ABE Coordinator
Jefferson County Public Schools
Adult and Continuing Education
Jacob Annex
3670 Wheeler Avenue
Louisville, KY 40215
502-485-3797

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: "Brown, Charlene" <cbrown5@jefferson.k12.ky.us>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:47:25 -0500
Subject: RE: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

We have a very successful 6 hour fast track program. This year our state was audited and our program was selected. The auditors hit us with testing too soon after the initial test. We were getting several learners who were moving up one or two grade levels on the TABE and going on to pass the GED with much higher scores than the OPT has predicted. So this year we have to talk them into staying for the number of hours the TABE recommends--which is just that recommendations. However, since the feds hit the state, we have to wait at least 50 hours before retesting the students. What this means is that we get no credit for serving those students who only need a quick study session to get their GEDs. It seems that efficiency is not appreciated. It seems odd that the manufacturer of a test and their salespeople are making recommendations that are not based on valid studies that are being used to set federal policy.

Charlene Brown,
ABE Coordinator
Jefferson County Public Schools
Adult and Continuing Education
Jacob Annex
3670 Wheeler Avenue
Louisville, KY 40215
502-485-3797

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Debby Lawson <lawsond@mvcaa.net>
Date: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 05:53 PM
Subject: RE: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

To all,

I have been very interested in this line of discussion and would like to point out the fact that a considerable number of people who possess a traditional high school diploma are not able to pass the GED test. For this reason, I believe that a GED earner will have about the same chance of success in further education as a high school graduate - some are better able to succeed than others.

I agree that the student’s reasons for earning a GED will have a lot of influence on how much information they should study before taking the GED. I also consider the learner’s beginning level when they enter the program and individualize the curriculum accordingly. If they have lots of gaps in their knowledge base, it stands to reason that it will take them longer to be prepared for the exam, but I refuse to hold a student back simply to fulfill a required number of instruction hours when they are able to pass the test with only a few hours of instruction and review.

Of course, many of the students we work with are in desperate need of obtaining employment or wish to advance in their present job to gain wage increases. For many, the value of the GED is in accessing future training. However, I believe that successful completion also boosts the adult learner’s confidence in his or her own abilities, which in turn, garners their efforts to push for more success.

I have no doubt that not one of the police officers, social workers, teachers, automotive technicians, nurses, etc. who have gone through our program would say that earning the GED made them any more intelligent. They would say that obtaining the GED was the first step in their journey toward becoming the adults they are today.

We hold an annual graduation ceremony for our students who earn the GED. I have to say there is no prouder family member in attendance at a ceremony than the young child of a graduate. It is my hope that the experience leaves a lasting impression with those children.

Debby Lawson, CCAP
MVCAA Adult and Family Literacy
Marshall, MO

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: David Rosen DJRosen at theworld.com
Date: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 06:14 PM
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

Hello Tom and others,

On Nov 30, 2005, at 2:05 PM, Tom Mechem wrote:

> I start with the premise, supported by research cited by David as > well as > others, that in order for a person to earn a truly family- > sustaining income, > she needs at least some post-secondary education; that she cannot > access > post-secondary education unless she has a high school credential; > that if > she did not graduate from high school, she must have a GED diploma > to go to > college and have any kind of a chance to properly support her family.

Tom, I agree up to this point . But as Sara Fass and Barbara Garner argue (in the last sentence quoted below, from "Beyond the GED...") :

"Program designers and curriculum developers should keep in mind that, despite the earning power the GED offers to many groups, GED holders, on average, do not earn enough to move themselves out of poverty. Post- secondary education is necessary for that. This means that GED students interested in better jobs should understand from the point of entry that the GED is a means of entry into further education, not an end in itself. Courses should be designed to prepare students academically and socially for the transition into higher education. " From "Beyond the GED: Making Conscious Choices About the GED and Your Future," Lesson Plans and Materials For the GED Classroom By Sara Fass and Barbara Garner NCSALL April 2000 http://www.ncsall.net/fileadmin/resources/teach/beyond_ged.pdf

> Therefore the GED diploma---that piece of paper---is very, very > important, > and it is incumbent upon all of us working with ABE students to do > everything in our power to maximize their chances of earning the > GED diploma > and going to college.

The problem is that so incredibly few people with GEDs make it through a college certificate or degree program. The GED diploma, or the high school diploma for that matter, is no longer "very, very important" *unless* it prepares its holder to succeed in college. It's just not good enough that the GED gets one *into* college because so few GED holders are prepared to *succeed* in college once they get there (including community college.) And it is not sufficient to assume that developmental studies in college will bring them up to college level academic performance. Given how few actually succeed now -- i.e. get a certificate or diploma -- and how many GED holders have enrolled in developmental studies, we have to assume that developmental studies is generally not the answer, at least the way it is administered in most colleges now. (Note Hunter Boylan's article in the NellieMae Education Foundation's ViewPoints which points out some examples where collaborations between ABE and Development Ed may positively affect GED holders' success in getting college level skills http://www.edviewpoints.org/current_topic/ index.htm)

Are the outcomes below acceptable to you, Tom ? They aren't to me.

"Over 65 percent of the GED examinees in 1999 indicated that they were obtaining the credential in order to pursue further education. Yet only 30 to 35 percent of GED holders obtain any postsecondary education, and only 5 to 10 percent obtain at least a year of postsecondary education. " s the GED Valuable to Those Who Pass it? Alice Johnson Cain, Focus on Policy http://www.ncsall.net/?id=648

I believe that the percentage of GED holders who complete a certificate or degree program of any kind is 2-4% (I think that was John Tyler's finding but I have to check.) The good news, though, is that the earnings differences for GED holders disappear compared with h.s. diploma holders for those who do get a degree. A GED is as good as a high school diploma, in terms of earnings, for those who get a college degree. But our challenge is raising that percentage from the unacceptable rate of 4%.

> The GED fast-track programs are an important component > of this. These programs are not designed for those students whose > literacy > level is so low that they are not really ready to take the tests--- > those > students require a completely different curriculum and program design. > The GED Fast-Track is for those students whose literacy level is > already high > enough for them to succeed on the tests---for the sake of argument, > I call > them the ones who need to get only three or four more questions > right on a > given test (that test is most often Math, sometimes Writing). These > students > need a program design that is individualized and focused (if all > you need to > pass is the Math, all you get is math), intense (15-20 hours a > week), and of > short duration (when you pass the tests, you're done). In > Massachusetts > there are programs (too few) that have used this design, and they > work.

Tom, I assume you mean that this is the definition of a GED fast- track in Massachusetts. But I am not sure that this is what is meant in other states. Perhaps those from Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky and elsewhere where there are "Fast Track" GED programs could tell us what this means in their state.

> David, I feel that your quarrel is not with GED Fast-Track programs > per se, > but rather you are doubting the value of the GED diploma itself. I > disagree > strongly. If we are not working to assist every one of our students > who is > capable to get a GED diploma and go to college, we are sentencing > them to a > lifetime of poverty, no matter how noble our intentions.

I don't think the GED diploma has ever promised that its holder is prepared for post-secondary education, only that its holder has an "equivalent" level of learning, on average, to graduating high school seniors. So it is valuable for those who want to assure the world that they have a legitimate equivalency diploma. But, unless the holder is a high scorer and prepared for college, it would be misrepresenting the value to say it is the key to college success. For most GED holders it is not enough. Programs which push students who say they want to go to college to get the GED as fast as possible, and whose students barely pass (whether called "Fast Track" or not) are doing them a disservice unless the students understand that they also need a transition to college program to get the skills needed for college level work.

Perhaps the answer is GED for those who fit 1, 2, 4, 5 and 6 below, and GED Plus (the plus is a transition program) for most of those who have 3 (college) as a purpose.

David J. Rosen
Adult Literacy Advocate
DJRosen@theworld.com

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: David Rosen DJRosen at theworld.com
Date: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 09:17 PM
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

Charlene,

On Nov 30, 2005, at 3:47 PM, Brown, Charlene wrote: > We have a very successful 6 hour fast track program. Is that 6 hours altogether? 6 hours a week? or 60 hours? > This year our state was audited and our program was selected. The > auditors hit us with testing too soon after the initial test. We > were getting several learners who were moving up one or two grade > levels on the TABE and going on to pass the GED with much higher > scores than the OPT has predicted. What does OPT stand for ? > So this year we have to talk them into staying for the number of > hours the TABE recommends--which is just that recommendations. > However, since the feds hit the state, we have to wait at least 50 > hours before retesting the students. What this means is that we > get no credit for serving those students who only need a quick > study session to get their GEDs. It seems that efficiency is not > appreciated. It seems odd that the manufacturer of a test and > their salespeople are making recommendations that are not based on > valid studies that are being used to set federal policy. The recommendations or suggestions provided by the NRS (a project of the U.S. DOE) in "State Assessment Policy Guidance," http:// nrsweb.org is:

"TABE, Forms 9 and 10 For the TABE 9/10 research suggests 60 hours of instruction. As a matter of practicality, we counsel our customers not to test so frequently that they do not see students move to the next NRS level. Michaeline M. Powell, District Manager CTB/McGraw-Hill mpowell@ctb.com 703.698.1325"

Is there some place that I am not aware of where there is an actual USDOE policy that programs _must_ wait 50 hours before re-testing? Or is this Kentucky state policy?

Thanks,

David J. Rosen
DJRosen@theworld.com

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Bob Weng
Date: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 09:26 PM
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

We started a 15 hour fast track program for the GED in 2002. It is designed for students who probably already possess the skills necessary to pass the GED and succeed in post-secondary education, but would benefit from an overview of the GED test and some experience on the Practice Tests. It has been successful for us, atracting students who otherwise might not hqave been willing to invest the time in a traditional longer term activity. We need to meet the needs of all our students, those needing long term interventions and those needing a short term boost to open other doors. We serve thousands of students each year, with thousands of stories and needs. The 15 hour program is not appropriate for most, but it does meet the needs of some.

Bob Weng Supervisor, Adult Education and Literacy St. Louis Public Schools

Bob, and others,

Thanks for this description of your fast track program. How do you screen students for eligibility? Do you use the TABE, and if so, what scores are needed to qualify? Do you interview students? If so, what makes a candidate suitable? What percentage of all your GED students would you say are right for the fast track program? I ask these questions because I would agree that a fast track program, as you have described it, would be good for some students, although, from my experience, only a small number/percent of -- mostly young adults. Is that your experience? I also think fast-trackers might benefit from a free, post-GED or GED Plus program through which they might prepare for college, including algebra, academic writing and reading, college study and survival skills, and whatever else might be needed to succeed.

Do you -- or does anyone on this list-- have a written description of a fast track GED program, from a policy manual or brochure, which sets out who the fast-track GED is for, and which clearly limits the candidates accepted to those who have the skills already and just need brush-up and encouragement. If so, it would be great to see the language describing the program. It might be helpful for programs in other states to think about as they set/revise their GED fast track program policies.

Everyone: is what Bob has described here what "fast track" means in your state?

David J. Rosen
Adult Literacy Advocate
DJRosen@theworld.com

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Leslee Oppenheim
Date: Thursday, December 01, 2005 10:01 AM
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

The City University of New York operates an Adult Literacy/ESL/GED program on 13 campuses of the University. The GED component, which has a commonly held instructional philosophy, seeks to rehearse the demands of college level study through rigorous coursework designed to broaden students' background knowledge. The instruction goes well beyond test preparation, although that is not ignored. Such an instructional approach helps to ensure that students are prepared to pass the GED test as well as to make a strengthened transition to college.

If you would like further information about the program, please feel free to contact me directly off-list.

Leslee Oppenheim
Office of Academic Affairs
The City University of New York
535 East 80th Street
New York, NY 10021
Phone: (212) 794-5437
Fax: (212) 794-5706

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Debby Lawson <lawsond@mvcaa.net>
Date: Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:29 AM
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

David J. Rosen wrote:

"I also think fast-trackers might benefit from a free, post-GED or GED Plus program through which they might prepare for college, including algebra, academic writing and reading, college study and survival skills, and whatever else might be needed to succeed."

Our program also provides for some additional study in areas suggested for GED recipients who wish to continue on to college. One thing I would be interested in providing would be the "college study and survival skills." Does anyone have information on this that could be duplicated and provided to students? I think it would be a valuable tool for those seeking further education.

Debby Lawson, CCAP
MVCAA Adult and Family Literacy
Marshall, MO

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Barbara Arguedas <barguedas@sfccnm.edu>
Date: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:57 PM
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

This is very interesting. Here at Santa Fe Community College (in NM), we offer a 1-credit transition to college class to all of our GED graduates. The class includes topics like how to register, how to take the placement test, tour the campus, etc. Tuition is covered by a scholarship. Unfortunately we have not had too many students go through the class but perhaps we will take a look at offering it in conjunction with a fast track GED class.

Barbara Arguedas
ABE Director
Santa Fe Community College
Santa Fe, NM
505-428-1643

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Terry Said <said@ameritech.net>
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

Many programs at community colleges will accept students who don't have a high school degree if they agree to pass the GED by the time they graduate from the program or they will graduate if they have met all the other requirements of the program when they pass their GED.

Terry Pruett-Said

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: bonniesophia
Date: Thursday, December 01, 2005 03:07 PM
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

The university where I teach a first year fundamentals course uses Mona J. Casady, Getting the college Edge, 2005 Address Inquiries to Paul Kennedy, Webcom ltd., 3480 Pharmacy Ave. Toronto, Ontario, Canada M12S7 Tel. 1-800-655-9322, Ex. 301. Although I don't have access to assessment data, I'd suspect that a significant portion of our population would test at GED levels for basic skills. The book has a good mix of study skills, life skills, communication, guides to research as well as introduction to campus life.

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Cynthia Zafft
Date: Thursday, December 01, 2005 03:34 PM
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

Dear One and All:

While we're waiting for folks to weigh in on Fast Track GED Programs, I thought I would comment on the lamentation that is intertwined in the discussion: how few GED recipients enroll in college. Students can do better.

Students that participate in ABE-to-college transition programs are much more likely to enter college. On the left side of the homepage of the National College Transition Network (www.collegetransition.org), you'll notice the New England ABE-to-College Transition Evaluation Report. Along with a brief literature review about the key barriers for students (starting on page 41), you'll find aggregated data from 25 transition programs in New England. For the Spring 2004 semester participants, 51% had verified enrollment in college for Fall 2004. As has been true over the five years of the project (conducted by the New England Literacy Resource Center and funded by Nellie Mae Education Foundation), students that participate in fall or summer programs tend to matriculate into college at even higher rates because there is not the typical lag between finishing the program and beginning college which you find in the spring program.

Now, the trick is documenting which skills and resources are needed for students to stay in and complete college. I think we are beginning to know more about that, too. If you look right below the evaluation report on the website, you'll see Florida's GED Plus model. The New England model is a kind of college prep model, addressing academic content (such as further work in algebra, one of the infamous college gatekeeper), study skills, career counseling, etc. There are several models of transition and it probably takes multiple models to serve the diverse needs of students.

So, I guess my message is, we are learning more about this trail that students need to take in order to have a living wage. The speed of the trip is important, but that's just one facet of the trip.

Cynthia Zafft, Coordinator
National College Transition Network
World Education, Inc.
44 Farnsworth Street
Boston, MA 02210
617 482-9485

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: "Mechem, Richard" <RMechem@doe.mass.edu>
Date: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:55 AM
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

David, et al.

I completely agree with you that the low number of GED recipients who enroll in college and the low number of enrollees who complete college is unconscionable. To the extent that our funding priorities, program designs, and overall expectations aid and abet this failure, however unwittingly, we are almost criminally negligent. (Or, as Jean Chall said many times in a similar context, "you might as well just put a gun to their heads.") I know that I am unrealistic and naive, but I sincerely believe that the goal of every student who steps foot in an ABE program, be she a recent immigrant who speaks no English or a highly-literate 19-year-old who can't pass the GED Math, should be to graduate from college. Anything less is sentencing our students to a lifetime of poverty, both economically and intellectually. I would totally support the sea change in perceptions, processes, programs, supports, and funding needed to make this happen.

I still maintain, however, that a critical component in this process is the attainment of a high school credential, which for 99.9% of our students means a GED diploma. Without the GED diploma, the goal of a college degree is simply not possible. Therefore, it remains incumbent upon GED coordinators, curriculum developers, and teachers that the design of, the materials for, and the instruction in their GED classes makes it possible for the maximum number of their students to pass the tests. The GED Fast-Track is an important innovation (at least it's an innovation in Massachusetts!) in improving the chances of passing the GED tests for a critical mass of our students and thus removing a major barrier in their pursuit of a college degree.

Tom Mechem
GED State Chief Examiner
Massachusetts Department of Education
"GED to Ph.D."

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Bob Weng
Date: Sunday, December 04, 2005 10:47 PM
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

Our flyer for the program states that it is for adults with good reading and math skills who wish to brush up before taking the test. We administer the TABE Reading the first evening of class. We do not pre-screen before class begins. If an adult scores below 8 on the TABE, we advise that this class will probably not be sufficient preparation for the GED but we do not make them leave. They are able to complete the five class program, but they are encouraged to enroll in another of our classes for further preparation.

The GED Practice Test is administered during the class over the next few days. This gives the teacher another opportunity to discuss results and counsel the student as to the likelilhood of passing the GED following this quick review.

The program was developed in part as a result of a change in the registration process for GED testing in Missouri. Prior to 2002, many adults took GED tests with no preparation whatsoever. Beginning in 2002, all adults wanting to take the GED come to an Adult Education center to fill out the Demographic Form prior to going to a testing center. This gave us an opportunity to market our programs to a new group which used to test without any preparation. When the adult fills out the Demographic Form, we also provide information on a variety of programs, including traditional classes, the 15-hour Prep program and GED On-line opportunities. We also have information available from local Community Colleges and the Educational Opportunity Centers which will provide free post-secondary assessment and counseling.

The 15-hour Prep program is a very small part of what we do. It is offered 9-10 times per year with 15-20 students each time. This is only 2-3% of the students we serve during a year.

Bob Weng

To: <aaace-nla@lists.literacytent.org>
From: Stephen Ewen
Date: Monday, December 05, 2005 06:08 AM
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] Are Fast Track GED programs a good idea?

I teach a GED Combined Studies I, featuring reading, writing, and social studies. The class is 90 hours over 4 months. Some students enter at the Pre-GED level, others the GED level. However, all may exit as "ready for the GED exam for [subject(s)]. Every term, there is one or two people who enter at the Pre-GED level and exit at the "ready for" level. In this way, the same course can be either "fast-track" or "normal track."

Stephen Ewen
Saipan

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