AlePlateau2

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From Bruce Carmel

I did extensive interviews with five adult non-readers in a literacy program. I asked them about reading, writing, books, and school in their early lives. I asked about reading at home, at school, and anywhere else (such as church).

This research generates some interesting ideas, some possible causes of not being about to read. More research would need to be done to test any of the hypotheses that come for this..

Some Features of Childhood

  • For all 5, some family members could read.
  • For all 5, there were many other children who were in the home (six or more).
  • All 5 were read to very little or not at all.
  • All 5 had no books of their own.
  • 4 of 5 attended elementary school regularly.
  • All 5 dropped out of school during early adolescence.
  • All 5 had one family member who helped with reading and writing.
  • For 3 of 5, for much of their childhood the parents were not the primary caregivers.
  • For 3 of 5, the primary caregivers changed.
  • For 3 of 5, the mother or primary caregiver was away from home because of work.
  • For 4 of 5, fathers were largely absent from home.
  • For 3 of 5, there was one or more major geographic move.

From: b.garner4@verizon.net
Subject: [NIFL-FOBASICS:1207] RE: Plateaus for beginning ABE readers--2nd & 3rd grade level. Why?
Date: December 2, 2004 1:29:29 PM EST
To: nifl-fobasics@literacy.nifl.gov

That second/third grade cut off jives with Jean Chall's theories of reading, that first you learn to read, then, around third grade, you read to learn. Did the author elaborate on the basis for her statement? Was it her observation, some research she had done, or what? And what are the implications of learners being stuck at a second or third grade level for adult basic educators?

Barb Garner

From: AWilder106@aol.com
Subject: [NIFL-FOBASICS:1208] RE: Plateaus for beginning ABE readers--2nd & 3rd grade level. Why?
Date: December 2, 2004 1:55:03 PM EST
To: nifl-fobasics@literacy.nifl.gov

I hope I'm not getting in too deep here.

There are actually two ideas here that I can think of.

1) Sight word learners can probably make do until 2nd-3rd grade. Don't need phonology. Then they need the support of phonics.

2) Chall's analysis really I think revolved round vocabulary--kids didn't have the (inherent) vocabulary to move ahead swiftly. She put the problem area one year ahead--4th grade.

The idea is that adults have more vocabulary than kids, BUT a phonological deficit or simply lack of knowledge could stop them cold.

Any teachers out there?

Andrea

From: DonMcCabe@aol.com
Subject: [NIFL-FOBASICS:1209] RE: Plateaus for beginning ABE readers--2nd & 3rd gr...
Date: December 2, 2004 2:37:21 PM EST
To: nifl-fobasics@literacy.nifl.gov

That second/third grade cut off jives with Jean Chall's theories of reading, that first you learn to read, then, around third grade, you read to learn. Did the author elaborate on the basis for her statement? Was it her observation, some research she had done, or what? And what are the implications of learners being stuck at a second or third grade level for adult basic educators?

The reason for this phenomenon is best explained by the chart on the AVKO Dyslexia Research Foundation's website w(w.avko.org/Research/word_types.htm$ (Change the w(w) to www and take the $ off the htm$ then copy and paste to get to it.

Don McCabe

From: AWilder106@aol.com
Subject: [NIFL-FOBASICS:1210] RE: Plateaus for beginning ABE readers--2nd & 3rd gr...
Date: December 2, 2004 2:59:37 PM EST
To: nifl-fobasics@literacy.nifl.gov

Don,

In great anticipation of a cognitive brekthrough I went to your site.

Cognitive dissonance!

I understand your chart. I may be wrong, but the issue seems to be what happens to a student at a certain point--a couple of years--into their literacy learning? I can't relate that question to the chart. Can you help, please?

Thanks.

Andrea

From: PHCSJean.2164047@bloglines.com
Subject: [NIFL-FOBASICS:1211] RE: Plateaus for beginning ABE readers--2nd & 3rd grade level. Why?
Date: December 2, 2004 3:04:03 PM EST
To: nifl-fobasics@literacy.nifl.gov

She actually didn't elaborate on it at all. It appeared to be an off the cuff observation after working with adult readers as a tutor. It reverberated with me, and appears to have some validity. But WHY did they get stuck there?

The world list in Don's link may have validity, though I'm not convinced about it. I wonder if we used this one with our learners and showed them the rules there if it would help.

There's a variety of potential reasons, but it just seems odd that that is such a sticking point for our students.

Jean

From: DonMcCabe@aol.com
Subject: [NIFL-FOBASICS:1212] RE: Plateaus for beginning ABE readers--2nd & 3rd gr...
Date: December 2, 2004 4:28:16 PM EST
To: nifl-fobasics@literacy.nifl.gov

The chart I referred to merely gives a visual picture of the types of words that are in reading materials that are of a 2nd and low 3rd level. For a better explanation of this phenomenon go to the essay "Read by Grade 3, Say What?" at Xwww.spelling.org/Research/read_by_Grade_three.htmX Just delete the beginning and ending X's, copy and paste into your browser. By the way, 3 out of every 4 words a "poor reader" cannot read will contain those patterns in the grid called fancy and 3 out of every 4 words that have these patterns a poor reader cannot read.

So what I do? I teach the patterns through the sequential spelling technique and teaching the roots that fit in with them as I go.

Don

From: meyer_j@ccsdistrict.org
Subject: [NIFL-FOBASICS:1213] RE: Plateaus for beginning ABE readers--2nd
Date: December 2, 2004 4:40:06 PM EST
To: nifl-fobasics@literacy.nifl.gov

Reading is a complicated process composed of several components. I'm sure the reading plateau is due in part to lack of phonics skills. It can also be due to lack of vocabulary. Conversational vocabulary is different than reading vocabulary, especially academic vocabulary. This is especially true for disadvantaged folks. So if someone can't read, their vocabulary is often also limited since they don't have exposure to the words. Comprehension can play a part too because usually around 4th grade we start being exposed to more nonfiction. Often times students are most familiar with fiction and they don't know the vocabulary and also they don't have comprehension strategies for nonfiction text frames.

Jane Meyer
Canton City Schools ABLE
Canton, Ohio
meyer_j@ccsdistrict.org

From: badger4245@earthlink.net
Subject: [NIFL-FOBASICS:1214] RE: Plateaus for beginning ABE readers--2nd
Date: December 3, 2004 12:27:10 AM EST
To: nifl-fobasics@literacy.nifl.gov

I may be alone on this but here goes. Too often I have met teachers who work with illiterate and marginally literate adults who spend little or no time on "big ideas." Discussing the social changes in Europe brought about by the Black Death or how on comma in the Bible divided Christianity into two philosophies or how the Greeks determined the size and shape of the Earth may seem disconnected with the need for functional literacy but overreaching is good. Adults are curious about their world. They want someone to treat them like intellectual equals. We all need that. Vocabulary, spelling, reading are learned when adults see a need. But they are learned best when adults use learning as the means to a personal end. I have first, second and third grade readers who daily spend time "reading" books on history and science. They don't know all the words but they do ask surprisingly intelligent questions They ask want to know why Joan of Arc was put to death, who was the first man to sail around the world, and which is correct - evolution or creationism. These are big ideas with big vocabulary but that should spur us as teachers to occasionally ignore phonics in favor of philosophy.

From: woods@ncia.net
Subject: [NIFL-FOBASICS:1215] Re: Plateaus for beginning ABE readers--2nd & 3rd grade level. Why?
Date: December 3, 2004 12:52:44 AM EST
To: nifl-fobasics@literacy.nifl.gov

Jean Marrapodi wrote: "People who can't read well consistently test at the second or third grade level regardless of age or schooling."

Do you see validity in that?

In my teacher training I learned that by third grade, normal readers will acquire all of the reading skills and strategies needed to read. Everything after that is further refinement and honing. So it would make sense to say that a reader who has not yet acquired the necessary foundational skills is probably not reading at an instructional level in third grade reading material.

I would say from my own work with adults that those who can read fourth or fifth grade material at an instructional level can read fairly well, but those who struggle to read second and third grade material are the ones I need to focus my efforts on. Fourth and fifth grade level material is really pretty mature. Consider that most newspapers are written at about the fifth grade level.

Tom Woods

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