Challenges and Resources
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Good Morning to all,
My name is Lydia Grinnell. Thanks for all the interesting conversation! I work as a Higher Education Specialist at the Crittenton Women's Union. I work in two of their programs specifically GED and Workforce Development; however I also provide my services to our Young Parents program as well as our Housing guests. In my position I teach both groups of my primary clients weekly as one of the goals of my position; the goal of the GED and Workforce Development programs is not only to prepare but also to expose students to careers, college, and the possibilities and value of higher education. I also provide one-on-one counseling to those students looking to go to college or training after our program.
Of the difficulties I face, there are many.
students wanting to go back to school that have defaulted student loans and no money to pay them back
students with low level skills (mostly GED recipients) that fall into developmental classes
students who have been out of school a long time and get denied acceptance to a university (even with one student that has her Associates Degree from 17 years ago and had a 2.4 GPA)
students with children that don't want to be separated from their children
students that have children and are in need of childcare AND to work and go to school
students with lack of or no support at home
My thoughts on transitioning students to higher education or work is that there are not enough "transitional supports" available to all. I often refer my students to a college prep program; however it is the only one in the area and operates at night when students do not have childcare available. I also run into a bump with the large amount of students I find with defaulted student loans from "career schools" of which they left due to unsatisfactory conditions or pregnancy, incarceration, etc, etc.
At the moment, at my organization we do not have the funding for a full fledged transitions program, so all we have is my position as well as a career specialist who works on placing students into jobs and internships as well as teaches job readiness. Between our two positions we cover a lot, but due to constraints, find it difficult to do as much as we would like. I am not a certified ABE teacher and neither is the career specialist. We teach in our areas, though often to students simply preparing for their GED or a job, and hence our positions become persuading those not interested to be interested in learning what we are trying to help them learn. Self-sufficiency is our mission and it is not an easy one.
I found the articles very interesting and helpful, thank you!
Sincerely,
Lydia Grinnell
Academic Specialist
Crittenton Women's Union
Education and Workforce Development
The biggest obstacle I have found is documentation. While students can apply to the college and register for classes, they cannot apply for financial aid. I have been looking for scholarships but haven't had any luck so far.
Getting buy in from different departments to support the transitioning ESL student really helps.
The profiles of the colleges were very interesting.
Jennifer Barber
English as a Second Language
Grays Harbor College
Aberdeen, WA
What seem to pose the biggest obstacles for your program when trying to successfully transition adult students from one education level to another, or from education to the workforce? What does your program try to do about this? The biggest obstacle for my program when trying to successfully transition adult students from one education level to another is persistence and motivation. Attendances at classes are inconsistent. What we try to do in our program to address these obstacles are varied. We have managed enrollment so that we have a cohort of students going through the program. We try to communicate often with instructors, coordinators and students. We occasionally bring in guests from the community to address to the class about careers and other issues. We are trying to set up a student support group to hold regular group sessions where students can get emotional support. We have approached our funding partners to support high achieving ABE students in taking post-secondary certificate classes. We have reviewed and rewritten our course guides using the CASAS content standards.
What resources have you found helpful when trying to successfully transition a student? How have they been helpful? We are a CASAS state and we use it to measure student progress and determine class placement. We have used this system successfully in ABE, ESL and ASE.
Please comment on the Introduction and/or Recommended Preparations for this Discussion, found at the announcement URL above.
I look forward to learn from the guests and the discussions.
Barbara Jacala
Guam Community College
Barbara,
You have done about as much as you can do, as far as I can tell. Let's face it, many ESL students aren't going to progress very far on their first try, because the skills of most of them are so low, and it takes so long to get much of a payoff. Managed enrollment helps. It's best if it can be done in high intensity and/or short module classes that help students get a sense of making progress. Also contextualization of workforce or post-secondary material from the beginning appears to help - think of where they might be going as soon as they start. Also I believe that personal learning plans and MUCH more investment in guidance/counseling help a great deal to motivate students. Some programs have "recovery" efforts that reach out to students who have "stopped out? Finally, I think the ESL curriculum needs to be reviewed to include more emphasis on helping students become self-directed life-long learners. Most won't learn most of their English in the classroom, so ESL should have as a goal helping them to learn better and more outside it.
Forrest Chisman
Hi Barbara,
Although you note that persistence and motivation is a frustration for your program, it sounds like you are trying a range of efforts to curb this - I especially like that you host community members. Perhaps there are ways to expand the most successful activities you are using now to keep the students coming to the program. I know that student persistence is a common issue for many programs.
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
Everyone,
Small programs that can not set up separate transition classes must often get very creative. I've been collecting data on local programs that have some promising practices in place when it comes to transition from ESL to ABE/ASE. One program in central Texas (Community Action, Inc. in San Marcos) has such an obviously good practice in place, you would miss it if you weren't looking for it! The Kyle Learning Center uses a teacher exchange between ESL and ABE/ASE classes to "wean" reluctant ELLs and move them on to ABE/ASE. See Literacy Links, Volume 11, no.1, April 2007, "Building Bridges to the Next Level - A Successful Experiment" by Jan Greening and Lee Williams ([www-tcall.tamu.edu]; then click on quarterly publications). Talk about a confidence builder!
Barbara Tondre
Texas LEARNS
Thanks, Barbara, for letting me tag on to your email.
Just as it takes a village to raise a child, it takes a community to support adults in this transition journey. There are several types of collaborations that I know of that have been very, very helpful along the way. Here's just one example.
In El Paso, several adult education centers created a consortium that began by just talking about ESL-to-college transition for their upper level students. Some centers were small, some were large. Together three centers, with support from El Paso Community College, developed and piloted what was eventually called a "pre-transition" program because they felt students needed to be better informed about the option of college before they decided to commit the amount of time/energy/family goodwill to such an endeavor. It ran at San Jacinto Adult Learning Center. Almost all of the students stayed on for another semester to focus on reading/writing/math for a college setting, then matriculated to college or university. Working separately this would not have happened when it did.
Cynthia Zafft, Senior Advisor
National College Transition Network
Yes, the best solution for small programs seems to be to share resources to create a transitions program that will serve all of them, or to share faculty to deliver transitions courses in all of them. Alternatively, they should refer students to larger programs nearby. This shouldn't be hard, but people in these programs are so overwhelmed with other responsibilities that they usually can't manage it. State TA should reach out and help them in this.
BTW, there seems to be an assumption by some people in this discussion that ESL students must be transitioned to ABE/GED if they are to make transitions. That's not self-evident to me. The ESL curriculum can be enriched. In fact, given the skills problems and learning styles of ESL students, that may be the best way to go. I'd like to see some discussion of that from ESL folks.
Forrest Chisman
The low skill level of many students trying to transition from GED to college may be the biggest barrier. We are part of the SUN grant/College Connection grant here in Colorado, so we are in the middle of doing exactly this-working in an intensive 8-week program that is attempting to help our GED grads accelerate their skill levels in reading, writing, math, study skills, critical thinking-and learn how to "do college" as well as explore career options. Our students are dedicated, but many nevertheless lack more sophisticated skills. One of our grant goals is to help them successfully pass through their current remedial course, and if they are at the 030 or 060 level, to perhaps skip over the next one into the higher 060/090 or into credit-bearing courses altogether.
Study skills of students-many GED students are episodic in their attendance and can still pull off a solid GED score, but college demands consistent and focused show-up-and-suit-up skills that may be unfamiliar if not downright foreign to GED grads.
Another barrier is that some teachers perceive their primary role as helping students earn the GED and although such teachers often support post-GED studies, they don't want to push students or focus on higher-level skills. This creates a de facto tracking system, and it may be that centers will need to formalize such tracking so that students who know they want to go on to post-GED studies can work with those teachers.
Resources: Having GED teachers who also teach as adjuncts for community colleges is hugely helpful because we understand both systems and what is required for a student to be successful in a college environment; we also can tutor and advocate in a way that teachers who teach at only one level may not be able or willing to do as effectively.
THE SUN/ College Connection grant has given us time and funding to develop curriculum, to work in close collaboration with other teacher/team members, and to introduce this approach to the community colleges.
Stephanie Moran
Durango, CO
Hi Stephanie:
In your post, you mention the role of the teacher, especially the additional skill set that GED teachers need in order to teach transition-related skills. I wonder if you would say a few words about how you decided what to include in your transition program and how the GED/adjunct teacher perspective was included.
Cynthia Zafft, Senior Advisor
National College Transition Network
World Education in Boston
Cynthia, Colorado was one of 4 states to earn an OVAE grant specifically to help transition GED grads into college successfully, with a target age of 18-24. We take students outside that age range, but only those who make gains in the age range are counted for the purposes of this grant. The grant charges us with helping students make gains in their remedial classes, and if they score in one of the lower of the three courses, to zoom past the next level, the idea being to save them time, money, and frustration. Of course, if you are familiar with the Accuplacer (see discussion thread entitled 'Accuplacer'), then you know that this is a hard road to hoe. Our fall students made real strides as readers, writers thinkers, and computers, but they did not all make vast leaps on the Accuplacer. The grant also expects us to do a lot with career exploration and teach study skills. I am having a terrific time with the Career Goal Exploration Project that I've put together.
This is an 8-week intensive course taught M-R (Monday through Thursday), the English/reading from 8:30--10:00 and math to 11:45. Students attend study sessions in their weak subjects for 2 hours minimum every week. We have a "Navigator," not a teacher, who recruits and functions to reduce non-academic barriers--someone that at least in theory the students may bond with and go to when trouble of any sort arises.
As it happens, my colleague Nan and I both have extensive college teaching, and we believe deeply in the need for education well beyond the GED for people who want to live a reasonably decent life in terms of the usual amenities, so we were a perfect fit. I don't think students would do as well in the college course with a teacher who wasn't familiar with college coursework, expectations, workload, etc.
Did this answer your question adequately? I am flying this week and trying to keep up with these discussion replies!
Stephanie Moran
Cynthia,
I just wanted to comment on the role of the teacher and what skills GED teachers need for transition related skills. We are currently operating a transition to college class in conjunction with our local community college. Higher level math skills seem to be the main focus of this class and the learning barrier most adult students struggle with the most. It is critical that Transition teachers have college level math skills.
The community college uses the Compass test to assess students and if they score too low they are immediately put into remedial classes. They still have to pay tuition for these classes thus using up their financial aid. Our instructor is using the materials that they use in the remedial classes as well as cross referencing with the Compass test to bypass the remedial classes. Many students are doing this successfully and are then still coming to class for tutoring and support once they enter the non remedial credit classes.
We are working on a duel credit program so that students get credit on their transcripts for taking our transition class which is free. We are a state funded adult ed center offering ABE, GED, ESL and transition classes.
Nickie Nolting
Workforce Development Facilitator
Professional Development Facilitator
GED Chief Examiner
Columbus, IN
Dear Stephanie,
Like others, I'm intrigued by your description of the SUN program. How do you focus on the higher order thinking skills in your 8-week intensive program? What kinds of tasks or projects are students asked to undertake?
Hillary Major
Publications Coordinator
Online Courses Technical Facilitator
Virginia Adult Learning Resource Center
I do an awful lot of foundational work to make sure that every student understands the language of critical thinking/reading/writing, e.g., infer/inference, topic vs. main idea vs. major details. I use a textbook, Critical Reading, Critical Thinking by Pirozzi, Starks-Martin, and Dziewisz, that has short selections across a truly wide swath of subjects, so the students get a great deal of bang for the buck-getting the reading/thinking piece and being forced to read more widely simultaneously!
I also use several articles from national columnists-Friedman, Harrop, a piece about "Are Kidneys a Commodity" from a Newsweek column-and really teach the hell out of them re summary, paraphrase, concession/refutation, implications vs. stated ideas-I really am trying to do a whole lot more with much less-intensive work. Ss do actual vocabulary work as well based on word parts/families so that they are forced to examine words far more closely than most have been accustomed. This intensive course ends on March 5 so I'll have more time at that time to share some materials; feel free to email me at that time and I'll pass on what I have done.
Stephanie Moran
WOW!!!! A discussion group that I can really use and hopefully add too (or is that to?)....Perfect example in my room this evening...a young lady who completed her H.S. diploma in adult ed., last week in my classroom and GUESS WHAT???? She can't be admitted into our local college unless she brings up her reading score! I have spent months helping her with FASFA, Admissions, Virtual Classes, etc.
I am the G.C.D.F. (Global Career Development Facilitator for Adult Ed., in our county plus I am the administrator for any Virtual classes, and much, much more!
Finding time to communicate with the discussion group will be difficult, but, this is one group that I most certainly need to be involved with...
I have built a portaportal site which I am more than happy to share with all...as I find helpful links I add them as often as possible. BUT, always remind everyone that if any links are inappropriate or request a fee, please let me know.
You can also build one of your own if you are an educator by registering at www.portaportal.com
I will answer the questions (provided as prompts) as soon as I can and ask for input from other teachers here at Howard Adult Ed., in Georgetown County. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Calette W. Smith
Career Transition Specialist &
Virtual Learning Coordinator
Georgetown County Adult Education, SC
We have advanced ESOL students who keep coming back because they want to improve. However, their CASAS score is too high that we are not seeing any more gains and they are therefore showing up in our reports as failures, i.e. continued in the same level or left the program before completion. I am thinking that we should try to move them over to the postsecondary developmental English courses. We are also considering offering an academic ESL course to transition such students to postsecondary. What are your thoughts?
Barbara Jacala
Guam Community College
We have an ESL to ABE Transition class for those exact learners. High ESL learners were often not ready for an ABE or GED class so we developed the Transition Class. Most students are in the ESL to ABE Transition class for one or two semesters. We developed a set syllabus, but certainly exercise some flexibility.
Elizabeth B. Sinnes
Adult Education Programs Coordinator
Charles County Maryland Public Schools
Hello, we have the same problem....the ESOL class is too high to make gains, but the students either don't want a GED or aren't ready....would you share your syllabus? What is your class size and how many of your students yearly obtain skills to earn a GED? I am the Supervisor of AE in Williamson County TN. We are trying to help our students advance to the GED.
Thanks,
Rhonda Booker Long
My thought is: Do it! In terms of transition to post-secondary, there are only three strategies I know of: 1) gradually transitioning them to a GOOD ABE/ASE program, 2) Providing credit ESL with co-enrollment options at the post-secondary level, 3) providing "career ladders" that allow students to get near term payoff by enrolling in integrated VESL programs at the intermediate level and then, hopefully, recovering them for pre-collegiate ESL later. All of these are hard, but all of them work to some extent. Personally, I believe that ESL programs should incorporate the elements of credit ESL as the highest levels of non-credit. I also think that they should adopt personal learning plans and devote FAR more resources to guidance/counseling to help steer students through these various pathways. I know that's asking a lot, and that many programs lack the necessary resources. However, I would rather see fewer students served well than a lot of students served badly. Also, learning plans guidance, counseling, etc. help separate possible transition students from students who are looking for only life skills == and to encourage the life skills students to expand their horizons.
Finally, many students do appear to re-enroll in certain courses - apparently because they view this as a social experience. Many programs put a limit on how many times a student can take a particular course and stage interventions when the limit is reached.
Forrest Chisman
In response to several requests to share the syllabus we developed for the ESL Transition to ABE class, I am sending some details. Although we have had a transition class for 3 years, this is the first year we have treated it as a 16 week class with a syllabus. It was developed by two current teachers with 25 years of combined experience in ABE and ESL.
The class meets 3 hours, twice per week for for 16 weeks. Most students move to an ABE class after one semester, but some have been enrolled in the Transition class for a second semester. The class focuses on both math and reading/writing, but with less emphasis on speaking than the lower level ESL classes. Students must score between 215 and 225 on the CASAS Reading 185 or GE 4-8 on the TABE for class placement, in math they take the CASAS 33 but are not required to have a specific score. CASAS is used for all pre/post testing. Students also write a sample paragraph from a prompt.
The texts currently used are:
Weaving It Together Book 2 (Heinle) and
Pre-GED Mathematics Skill Workbook (New Readers Press).
Computer software is used to enhance the curriculum and used weekly by all enrolled students during class time. The computer lab is also available before or after class, if students wish to stay. Software programs used are Aztec, Skills Tutor and Web Quests.
Math skills include but are not limited to:
Place value, whole number operations, reading graphs, rounding, introductory fractions, basic measurement, math word problems, identifying operations, calculating miles per gallon, shopping/finding percent
Language Skills Include but are not limited to:
Compound sentences, inference, scanning for details, topic sentences, map skills, subject/verb agreement, punctuation, writing complete sentences, supporting sentences, plurals, reading graphs and charts, plural possessives, reading labels, homonyms, reading for details, commas, parts of speech, using a dictionary/thesaurus, writing a narrative, sequencing,
I hope this is helpful. By the end of this semester we will refine the existing syllabus and would be happy to share it with those who are interested.
Elizabeth B. Sinnes
Adult Education Programs Coordinator
Charles County Maryland Public Schools
I think as we go through this discussion, we need to keep in mind that ABE/GED students and ESL or ESOL learners are two entirely different things. I teach both and have different approaches to both. It has been my experience that GED/ABE learners who are NOT language learners are generally with me because for one reason or another they didn't finish high school and are now wanting to do that. MOST of them have had learning problems throughout their school careers that were addressed poorly or not at all. For many of them academic recovery is the answer. Sometimes beginning at very elementary levels with basic skills. Most ESL and language learners face very different barriers to completion of a GED or high school diploma. Only one being the language barrier. Again-we begin at the beginning. Reading and verbal language usually far surpassed written language. Math is usually very good to whatever grade level they completed in their native school. This is a huge thing that we begin. Each at his/her own level of understanding and grade equivalent. I don't know if there we are in a "one size fits all" educational field. The only path to success is individualized instruction. Constant contact with the students. I have cell phones and work numbers for all. If they don't show at class I am on the phone with them wondering why. I chase them down in the grocery store and lure them back to class. I make friends with all of them and have had dinner in their homes. I make instruction as personal as possible.
Kathy Ellithorpe
(For some discussion of the differences between working with ABE/GED and ESOL students, see Wendy Quiñones' post in the transcript entitled 'Program Profiles'.)
Hi,
I have been managing a transitions program based at a community college for 9 years. Here a few suggestions/strategies that adult secondary programs and even all ABE/ESOL adult programs can implement that do not utilize large sums of money.
First, start at the beginning levels to help the students become independent learners, it has been my experience that students become overly dependent upon their teachers and staff at programs in giving them the information. When they are in a transition class and are asked to research topics, the students have not developed these skills. And we know how to research and find information is a skill that is not just academic but a life skill.
Next start early and talk about life beyond the GED either in post secondary education or a technical trade.
Give homework. I found that the students were shocked to find out how much homework is expected in college. But before you start giving homework, discuss with the students time management strategies so they can plan their study/homework time. The transitions teacher has the students fill out a 24 hour clock of their daily activities and often it is 30+ and that is before homework time is added in.
Provide longer reading passages. In college there is a lot of reading expected and GED /ESOL students struggle because they have not yet developed the reading muscle.
Toni Borge
Hi Toni - welcome! Bunker Hill Community College is another of the programs profiled in the resource Torchlights that can be found in the Recommended Preparations.
Glad to have you with us!
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
Toni,
Amen! CAAL received recommendations along these lines from all the better college transition programs we studied, including the one at Bunker Hill. Everyone should take them VERY seriously.
Forrest Chisman
