Distance Learning Discussion with Jerome Johnston

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Distance Learning Discussion with Jerome Johnston

This discussion took place on the NIFL-Technology electronic list [ technology@nifl.gov ] in July, 2005. Jerome Johnston was the guest.

From: mariannf@lacnyc.org
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3671] Welcome Jere Johnston
Date: July 19, 2005 9:33:34 AM EDT

Good Day all,

I'm very happy to welcome Jere Johnston from the University of Michigan as our guest moderator for a discussion on distance learning. Jere is the Director of Project IDEAL, which he will be explaining in upcoming messages. Jere will be with us beginning this morning and continuing the discussion through this Friday, July 23rd.

Jere will be discussing his research, distance learning in general, responding to our questions and posing some questions to us. I look forward to having a robust conversation and thank Jere for taking time out of a busy schedule to join us...welcome!

Best, Mariann

Mariann Fedele
Coordinator of Professional Development,
Literacy Assistance Center
Moderator,
NIFL Technology and Literacy Discussion List mariannf@lacnyc.org

From: jerej@umich.edu
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3670] Distance Learning - Teaching/Learning Issues 1
Date: July 19, 2005 9:31:24 AM EDT

Hi. I'm Jere Johnston. I direct the Project IDEAL Support Center at the University of Michigan. Project IDEAL is a consortium of states working to develop effective distance education programs for adult learners. IDEAL stands for Improving Distance Education for Adult Learners. Seventeen states belong to the consortium. The Center provides technical support in the areas of teacher training, research design, data collection, data analysis, and reporting. We help state staff responsible for distance education design and assess their efforts.

We encourage states to "grow" their distance education program in one-year cycles -- start small by providing 5-10 agencies with resources and training to create a small distance effort. Along the way collect data on what works and what doesn't. Review the data each summer and adjust the effort for the next cycle. The Center captures the lessons from each state and shares them with other states through an annual workshop on distance education and through various publications. (http://projectideal.org).

Marianne provided me with the six questions posed by members of the listserv. I'll spread my extended answers over the next three days. Tuesday: teaching/learning issues in distance. Wednesday: Technologies for Distance. Thursday: Assessment in Distance

QUESTION 1. My questions really revolve around what it takes to be a successful DLearner, especially when you've maybe not had much success as a traditional student or a student in traditional education.

I start with the assumption that distance is not for every adult, regardless of their interest. We encourage states to train teachers to assess learners at intake to see that the following factors are in place before recommending that the student pursue studying at a distance.

- A desire to reach a clearly defined educational goal - Some evidence of self-directed activity in their lives - Support from relevant others (e.g., family members) for engaging in distance study - Easy access to the technologies needed to use a particular distance curriculum - If the curriculum of study is computer or Internet based, computer skills adequate to the task. - High enough reading or math skills to handle the independent reading without getting discouraged. - - We recommend a minimum of seventh-grade level on the intake test - A quiet, easily accessed place to study - A schedule that permits regular work on the distance course

Do you agree that teachers should be selective? Do you think there are other factors to take into account?

I'll post the answer to another teaching/learning question later today.

J E R O M E J O H N S T O N
Director, Project IDEAL Support Center
Institute for Social Research - University of Michigan
734/763-3079 (734) 615-6638 (fax) jerej@umich.edu

From: jhamlett@insightbb.com
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3672] Re: Distance Learning - Teaching/Learning Issues 1
Date: July 19, 2005 11:04:25 AM EDT

High enough reading or math skills to handle the independent reading without getting discouraged. - - We recommend a minimum of seventh-grade level on the intake test.

Jere, this recommended reading level excludes a high percentage of adults in literacy and adult basic education classes that are a prerequisite to the GED class. Are you working on any distance learning methodologies to incorporate learning for those who read at a lower level? If so, what methods are you developing? If not, what are the roadblocks?

Jackie Hamlett
Adult Literacy Consultant

From: jerej@umich.edu
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3673] Re: Distance Learning -
Date: July 19, 2005 12:10:12 PM EDT

Experience in Arkansas, Idaho, Ohio and Rhode Island suggest that SkillsTutor (the online version) works well with lower level students. The text is at a low reading level and the lessons are chunked into smaller units than curricula designed for higher level students.

A number of our states are using "Pre GED Connection" for lower level students. Many teachers reported that GED Connection didn't provide enough remedial help for students that needed more than the review provided by GED Connection. In response, KET created Pre-GED Connection. The online materials are free for students.

There are two issues here: one is reading skills; the other is that reading level serves as a proxy for skills to handle independent study. Learners who test at a reading level lower than 7th grade typically need more support than is typically built into distance education.

Jerome Johnston

From: Tina_Luffman@yc.edu
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3674] Re: Distance Learning - Teaching/Learning
Date: July 19, 2005 2:33:57 PM EDT

Hi Jere and all,

I am a new DL teacher from the Arizona ADEAL project. Of the GED graduates and other successful students we had, all of them fit the academic criteria listed in your email. We did see a lot of students come to us with lower reading and/or math levels, and we had them join our regular classes until their reading and/or math levels improved to at least sixth grade. Students were highly motivated to come to class and study their lowest subjects so they could get into the program. Some of these continued to study online and continue to be successful while others did poorly. However, at least they all had that burst of energy in the beginning and made an educational gain to show themselves they do have the potential to learn.

We also had a number of students who entered the online classes who later learned that their family situation is not conducive to learning. Quite a few, especially those with young children, had difficulty disciplining themselves to study online, but found that coming to a classroom helped them significanty with taking time for their own education. This situation seems even more evident in female students over male students.

The important part is that the students had the opportunity to try online learning for themselves, and now many of the unsuccessful ones are requesting coming back to the regular classroom. The successful ones are moving on to college or back to their place of employment hopeful for advancement or a new career. This experience is valuable for our students because we "expect" our students to continue on with some form of education or training in the future, and now these students will know if online classes will be effective for them. For those who ask, but what about the handicapped person who is computer literate, but cannot come to class twice a week? We are planning to set up distance sites for many students to come to a local place for assistance once a week. These students can then do what they are able to at home for the remainder of their study time, but will still need to bring their reading level up before getting placed into the MHC Online software.

What can they do at home? In addition to the MHC Online program, I am a strong proponent of Skills Tutor and have seen a great deal of benefit from this software system for our face-to-face as well as online students regardless of academic level. Skills Tutor has Learning Milestones software that extends down into elementary school levels. Also, we encourage students to purchase a complete GED book or Pre-GED book for under $20 if they feel it would be helpful. It may seem unreasonable to expect students to bring their reading level up before putting them into the MHC software, but the software is made with certain expectations of a person's reading ability. Placing them into this software before they are ready is frustrating and makes the students feel like they cannot learn.

Another great software program we have is Reading Power Modules. This software program has raised students' reading WPM rates up to 30% in four months when used properly and regularly. The students really enjoy the program and find that time flies by when they are working on it, even some of the most disinterested. This program is network-based, so it is not available for online use, but is available in all of the labs our college has set up around the county. We have had great success in the classroom. It was also one of the most successful tools in bringing reading levels up to standard for students trying get into the online study program.

I would love to see Pre-GED Connection. It sounds like a valuable tool. It may enable us to extend GED online to the pre-GED population. Does anyone know what reading level this product was written at? I also am aware that MHC is working on a Pre-GED Online product. No matter how great our tools are, the lower level the students are, the more of a challenge it will be to see them through to success. However, I am sure we are all willing to do our part to see that happen.

Thanks,

Tina

Tina Luffman
Instructional Specialist, ABE-GED
Verde Valley Campus
634-6544
tina_luffman@yc.edu

From: mariannf@lacnyc.org
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3675] Re: Distance Learning
Date: July 19, 2005 5:05:06 PM EDT

Tina and Jackie,

Thanks for sharing your experience and questions with Jere and the list. What do others think about the criteria that should be used in evaluating a student's elgibility for a distance learning program? Do you have any experiences you can share?

Best,
Mariann

Marianne Fedele

From: barry.bakin@lausd.net
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3677] RE: Welcome Jere Johnston
Date: July 19, 2005 6:29:07 PM EDT

I look forward to the discussion. Is it too late to add a few questions? If not, here they are! What is the general funding model that you're working with in project IDEAL and how are your traditional classes and schools being impacted by students who are attending regular classes because they can now study online? Are you assuming that the online population is a completely different population than those who come to class? Does studying online increase the number of students who attend in classrooms in any way? If the school providing the online course gets funding for the number of students, do the students have to be local or state residents? For the most part, California schools get funded by students coming to a school and sitting in a chair while making progress on standardized tests such as CASAS. There is a distance learning component, but at some point students have to come to a school and turn in their work on a regular basis in order for the school to receive funding. How are you addressing this with online work?

Barry Bakin
Pacoima Skills Center
Division of Adult and Career Education
Los Angeles Unified School District
barry.bakin@lausd.net

From: jerej@umich.edu
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3678] DL Teach/Learn Q2
Date: July 19, 2005 7:43:28 PM EDT

Here's the second question I was asked. Tina Luffman's contribution this afternoon provides an alternate answer to the question.

QUESTION 2. What distance learning models are most successful in retaining adult learners' interest and active participation over time?

The essence of distance education is self study, where learners work their way through materials designed to teach. The single most important factor in learner success is having a teacher who provides encouragement, helps set manageable goals, and helps the learner master difficult concepts. Providing such support in a faceless context is tricky. In a classroom a teacher can easily read the needs of each student. It's much more difficult when the teacher must depend on electronic summaries of student progress (or workbooks exchanged by mail) to judge a student's progress and then use e-mail or a telephone call to provide encouragement and feedback.

Some learners need very little support while others need a lot. We encourage putting learners in a distance course only if they are functioning at a fairly high level (7th grade reading and math) and are self-directed. But there is a lot of variation in self-directedness. Distance programs in most states start out trying to make a Pure Distance model work; after a face-to-face orientation, learners do almost all of their studying at a distance. With time and experience we have seen many Pure Distance programs become Hybrid programs, where learners do most of their work at home, but have the opportunity to come to class on a regular basis for help-perhaps once a week or once every two weeks. The reason is that they find many distance learners need more systematic support.

Some programs have students start in a classroom setting. As the teacher sees learners gain confidence with their studies they allow them come to class less frequently and do more of their assignments at home. This is easy to do when the class is built around a packaged curriculum (e.g., GED Connection or Crossroads Café). It is easy to pick lessons that can be done outside of class.

In your experience teaching at a distance, what models have worked best for your learners? Do you vary your approach based on student needs?

Jerome Johnston

From: jerej@umich.edu
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3679] Re: Welcome Jere Johnston
Date: July 20, 2005 6:32:20 AM EDT

At 6:29 PM -0400 7/19/05, Bakin, Barry wrote:
I look forward to the discussion. Is it too late to add a few questions? If not, here they are! how are your traditional classes and schools being impacted by students who are attending regular classes because they can now study online?

Distance programs in most of the 17 states are too new for us to know. Administrators and teachers in distance programs complete a survey each June. One of the questions asks their perception of whether the learners they have would have come to classroom programs if distance wasn't available. In those states that are trying to deliver "pure distance" the answer ranges from 50%-90% would not have come to classroom programs. As programs shift to more hybrid programs, with students attending some classes, estimates are lower.

New York has the largest distance program -- some 38,000 distance learners. Their teachers don't complete the survey.

Are you assuming that the online population is a completely different population than those who come to class?

Not assuming, but one of the goals of the distance programs in most states is to increase access for adults who can't attend classroom programs. After initial efforts to bring in a new set of students programs begin to realize that distance could help them with existing classroom students by helping with would be "stop outs" who want to drop out of a classroom program when life circumstances change.

Does studying online increase the number of students who attend in classrooms in any way?

No data on this question. But anecdotally, administrators report that advertising a distance program brings students in to the literacy center who find that distance is not the right option for them, so they stay for something else.

If the school providing the online course gets funding for the number of students, do the students have to be local or state residents?

All the states in Project IDEAL (CA is not a member) use one of three proxy seat time models to give credit to students and teachers for their involvement in distance programs. See projectideal.org -> Publications -> Working Paper 2: "Measuring Seat Time and Educational Progress in Distance Education."

For the most part, California schools get funded by students coming to a school and sitting in a chair while making progress on standardized tests such as CASAS. There is a distance learning component, but at some point students have to come to a school and turn in their work on a regular basis in order for the school to receive funding. How are you addressing this with online work?

In all of the states distance learners turn in their work. What that amounts to varies with the curriculum being used for the distance program. In NC ESL students come to a center or local library once every two weeks. They turn in their workbook exercises and video and take a quiz on the work. If they get 70% or better they get credit for 12 seat time hours. Then they take home a new video and study in their workbook.

Learners studying GED Connection can alert their teacher to look at completed online exercises in their portfolio, but they need to mail or bring in their workbook to get credit for that.

Learners studying SkillsTutor or PLATO at a distance don't need to turn in their work; they are "clocked" by the program and teachers use this for seat time. The assumption with these programs is that the programs are monitoring their work.

Testing (for NRS) still requires face-to-face time.

Jerome Johnston

From: djrosen@comcast.net
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3680] Distance Learning
Date: July 20, 2005 7:41:16 AM EDT

Hello Jere and Barry,

On 7/19/05, Barry Bakin wrote:

how are your traditional classes and schools being impacted by students who are attending regular classes because they can now study online?

Then, On Jul 20, 2005, Jerome Johnston wrote:

I am interested in other possible impacts of DL options for students who attend classes. It might be useful to look at Barry's question in the context of a continuum of four different learning contexts [ See http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Distance_Learning for definitions of the first three of these ].

1. Pure Distance Learning

2. Hybrid or blended learning

3. Supplemental computer-assisted or online instruction

4. Traditional classroom learning or tutorial

Here are some (to me, at least) interesting things to think about:

a. Students enrolled in traditional learning who have the option of Pure DL might not have to drop out of a program, for example when their work schedules change or they have to stay home to take care of a family member. They could temporarily (or permanently) switch to a DL option and continue to be enrolled in the same program. For more on this idea, see http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/DistanceAndPersistence

b. Some California research shows that ESL/ESOL students who are enrolled in traditional classroom learning, and who also take advantage of supplemental instruction, make greater learning gains than those who are just enrolled in classes http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/ResearchOnTech#Is_supplemental_DL_instruction_an_effective_learning_tool.3F

c. Longitudinal research in Oregon (not on DL, but on self-study) shows that adult basic education students who study entirely on their own without a teacher, on the whole, do as well as those enrolled in classes. However, those who do both self-study _and_ classes have greater learning gains. This research also found, as Jere has, that "The ability to study on one's own may depend on having certain levels of basic skills." [Presentation by Stephen Reder at COABE, spring, 2005, Reder, Stephen. Giving Literacy Away, Again: New Concepts of Promising Practice To appear in: A. Belzer & H. Beder (Eds.) Toward defining and improving quality in adult basic education: Issues and Challenges. Mahwah, NJ: Erlbaum (in press). and http://www.ncsall.net/?id=287 ]

Jere, and others, what other possible impacts on traditional classes should we be thinking about or researching?

David

David J. Rosen
djrosen@comcast.net

From: lalumineuse@yahoo.com
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3683] Re: Distance Learning
Date: July 20, 2005 9:22:08 AM EDT

Dear David,

Firstly I think that we need to clarify distance learning for whom, by whom and for what purpose. In my experience of distance learning (having worked for ALMA and done an evaluation of Crossroads Cafe amongst other things), these three issues are crucial to any discussion about distance learning.

In the case of Crossroads Cafe, all the learners I interviewed said very clearly that whilst it was a nice enough show, they needed language practice to really speak English, which is what they all wanted to do and I spoke with people who had Ph.Ds and no education at all.

As you mentioned:

1. Pure Distance Learning<

People who do this are indpendent learners, and often already have some education.

2. Hybrid or blended learning<<

In the case of TV 411 and Crossroads Cafe, this approach seemed to be used the most and was better liked than approach 1.

In India, from what I've researched, learning groups in front of a telly (especially in the case of women) is not uncommon at all. In all three slums I studied, women said they preferred learning in groups, whilst using the television as the 'medium' or instruction.

Regards,
Ujwala

From: rrusso@hcde-texas.org
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3684] Re: Distance Learning
Date: July 20, 2005 9:37:23 AM EDT

I also think we need to clarify what it is that we are talking about when we say Distance Learning, specially when it comes to adult students with limited education. As part of a distance learning pilot program coordinator years ago, Distance Learning meant video lessons that were broadcasted a number of times. Students had access to the episodes at home and at the Center. Students came once a week to discuss the episodes and to practice their communication skills. Back in 1999, where very few adult learners enrolled in our programs had computers at home, it was not feasible to have online courses.

Can I hear from Jere and David about how that has changed? Roughly, what is the percentage of video and other paper materials that are part of Distance Learning programs as opposed to online instruction? Are programs using both? If so, what has proven to be more successful?

Renata Russo

From: jerej@umich.edu
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3685] DL Teach/Learn Q3
Date: July 20, 2005 9:42:24 AM EDT

Here's another question from the list.

QUESTION 3. What are the greatest challenges in implementing distance learning projects with adult learners and what are some strategies to address the challenges?

Distance teaching is a very challenging activity. Even the best of classroom teachers need a great deal of support to become equally effective supporting learners whom they can't see. I see the biggest challenges for teachers as these:

1. Monitoring student progress while they are working on their own 2. Supporting learner efforts to master content or skills on their own with timely interventions when they run into a challenging concept 3. Keeping learners motivated to persist and reach their goal

I see the biggest challenge for literacy programs is recruitment and assessment. The goal of the national effort to expand distance education for ABE is to increase access for adult learners who don't already come to classroom programs. Literacy centers have extensive experience reaching out to people who want to come to a classroom program, but they don't know where to find learners who need the services, but would never think of going to a classroom program. I'll address the assessment issue on Thursday.

The biggest challenge for those who are responsible for supporting distance programs is providing PD opportunities for distance teachers that will help them refine their distance teaching skills so they can be as effective at a distance as they have been in the classroom.

Jerome Johnston

From: jerej@umich.edu
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3686] Re: Distance Learning & Culture
Date: July 20, 2005 1:54:06 PM EDT

Another good set of examples of adapting the approach to the needs and circumstances of learners.

I was very interested in the cultural/gender issue implicit in your Indian example of women learning language in a group. I did studies of Crossroads Cafe in different cultural groups in the U.S. Cubans in FL wanted to be told what they should know and were resistant to studying on their own while Russian intellectuals in Chicago wanted to tell me what they should know, and how soon they would know it by studying on their own. These were small groups and I don't mean to generalize to the cultural groups from which they came. But the examples illustrate how people's background and expectations may shape the learning model that works best for them.

Jerome Johnston

From: jerej@umich.edu
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3687] Re: Distance Learning
Date: July 20, 2005 1:55:40 PM EDT

At 9:37 AM -0400 7/20/05, Renata Russo wrote:

I've noticed two things: videos have changed and computers and the Internet have displaced videos to some extent.

GED on TV (1989?) was very didactic. There is an instructor on screen who explains things as though he were at the front of a class of students. Many of the newer video productions have been designed to look at some phenomenon that a learner is supposed to examine, analyze and draw some conclusions from. For example, in Workplace Essential Skills one video shows an interview with a personnel director for a hotel chain in Chicago. The purpose of the video is not to tell the viewer what to do at an an interview, but rather to give the viewer a sense for what a personnel director is looking for. Another video shows a customer in a restaurant interacting with a waitress. She fails to hear what the customer really wants and brings him what she thinks he should want. The video is intended as a discussion piece. The assumption is that a student will discuss the scene in class or respond to pointed questions in either the workbook or the online activities that accompany the videos.

Project IDEAL states use a variety of curricula in their distance programs. I've noted in parentheses what components they have: W=workbook, V=video, and O=online): Crossroads Café (v,w) and English for All (v,o), GED Connection (v,w,o), Pre-GED Connection (v,w,o), McGraw-Hill-Contemporary GED Online (o), PLATO (o), SkillsTutor (o), GED Illinois (o), and Workplace Essential Skills (v,w,o).

Teachers in states that use online series with video components tend to place the emphasis on the print and online activities, because it is difficult to "discuss" a video at a distance as you would in a classroom. On the other hand, Crossroads Cafe does not have an online component; the heart of the curriculum is the workbook and accompanying videos. The videos are at the heart of the learning experience.

Jerome Johnston

From: djrosen@comcast.net
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3688] Re: Distance Learning
Date: July 20, 2005 4:43:59 PM EDT

Hello Renata,

On Jul 20, 2005, at 9:37 AM, Renata Russo wrote:

Roughly, what is the percentage of video and other paper materials that are part of Distance Learning programs as opposed to online instruction? Are programs using both? If so, what has proven to be more successful?

I think this varies from DL program to program. In the DL Research project I was part of in Massachusetts in 2003-2004, we were surprised by how much students said they used print materials in their DL learning. One might think that in pure DL all the instruction now is on computer or video (tape, CD-ROM, DVD etc.) I don't think that's necessarily the case. Paper materials are still an important component.

Jere, does Project IDEAL have any research data on use of paper materials vs. video vs other kinds of instruction from its other sites?

Jere -- and others : Does anyone know if the Adult Literacy Media Alliance has data on this from TV411 users? Or Intellicom from Crossoads Cafe users? Do California researchers or developers have this information for English For All? Do any of the other DL product creators have this kind of information about how their products are used? Are data on this question available from Canada, Australia, Ireland, or other countries which are using DL.

David J. Rosen
djrosen@comcast.net

From: jerej@umich.edu
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3691] Distance Learning - Assessment
Date: July 21, 2005 8:39:34 AM EDT

I received several questions on assessment. Here's the first one. I'll post the second one this afternoon.

QUESTION 4. What sorts of assessments do you use with distance learning?

Assessment is a key component of all educational programs; used properly it can yield valuable information for teachers, students and administrators. Assessment can be used for various purposes, including placing students into appropriate classes, gauging student progress, and measuring overall educational gains for accountability purposes.

In most states, standardized tests such as the AMES, ABLE, CASAS, or TABE are routinely used to determine student placement and to measure student progress after an extended period of instruction. As a progress measure these tests provide a useful summary judgment-e.g. a single scaled score or grade level rating-that can be used to assess overall progress after an extended period of study.

TESTS FOR ACCOUNTABILITY

It is these tests that are most challenging in a distance setting, because accountability demands that the test be administered in a proctored situation. Taking a test at a distance does not meet the proctored criterion, so some ways need to be developed to have a distance learner come to a literacy center for testing. Usually this is easily done for the pretest, because it is part of a face-to-face intake process where the learner and teacher are trying to decide if distance is an appropriate option for the learner. It is getting learners to return to a proctored setting for the posttest that is problematic. We encourage Project IDEAL states to consider working out a system of satellite testing centers to deal with this problem. I think libraries and local elementary schools could be enticed to provide proctored testing for distance learners that live in their area.

TESTS TO GUIDE INSTRUCTION

But too much attention is given to the accountability measures. Designing a semester's work, or measuring progress along the way, requires more diagnostic information than a test like the TABE can provide. So distance learners (and their supporting teachers) need access to a library of quizzes or tests that can be used to help the learner figure out if they are making progress. Such tests do not need to be secure, because nobody is trying to use them for accountability. Many of the curricula being used at a distance (GED Connection, GED Interactive (McGraw Hill Contemporary), GED Illinois, English for All, SkillsTutor, PLATO, etc.) have quizzes or practice tests built in, and a learner can use them at a distance as often as they want. But more attention needs to be given to this form of testing. We address a number of these issues in a working paper titled "Using Assessment to Guide Instructional Planning." It's available for download at projectideal.org. The paper examines how assessment to gauge student progress can be used in distance education programs for adult basic learners, with a particular focus on using assessment to guide instructional planning.

What experience have you had trying to use assessments to help distance learners figure out if they are making progress? Have you found tools to help you create and post a quiz? How have you dealt with discussing quiz results with the distance learner?

Jerome Johnston

From: maureenh@azcallateen.k12.az.us
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3693] RE: Distance Learning - Assessment and othe links
Date: July 21, 2005 11:17:17 AM EDT

I have seen a good assessment on line. It is on http://www.mindplay.com/ I think that the future will bring a comprehensive system of assessment and instruction. In our distance program, the student comes in for an orientation and takes the TABE test. Another comment: I checked the lessons on the pre-GED literacy link site. It simply had a few links. I have quite a few more in our curriculum link pages. It's hard to keep up with the links, but I do my best. The links are on http://www.az-aall.org/AALL/Pages/Lessons/Support/supportmaterials.htm

Weather update for Phoenix: 109. A few days ago it was 115!

Maureen Hoyt

From: bonniesophia@adelphia.net
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3695] Re: Distance Learning
Date: July 21, 2005 11:51:00 AM EDT

Colleagues,

My anecdotal evidence backs David on the use of paper by distance learners. In my own modified distance learning environment of a few years back, many students insisted on printouts of the online material in Workplace Essential Skills, and wanted to compose on paper before entering materials electronically. So rather than a seamless integration, one had a constant transfer of media. In regard to videos, some English learners needed more repeat time, and real-time vocab development in class was often a must.

Best,

Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D.
formerly of Working Smart
Waterbury, CT
currently Writing Center, Post University
Waterbury, CT

From: jerej@umich.edu
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3697] RE: Distance Learning - Assessment and
Date: July 21, 2005 2:34:26 PM EDT

At 11:17 AM -0400 7/21/05, maureen hoyt wrote:

Another comment: I checked the lessons on the pre-GED literacy link site. It simply had a few links.

They have a lot more material in the printed workbooks that you can buy from KET.

I have quite a few more in our curriculum link pages. It's hard to keep up with the links, but I do my best. The links are on http://www.az-aall.org/AALL/Pages/Lessons/Support/supportmaterials.htm

Nice site, especially tying the resources to the standards. Nice mix of websites and resources within the Contemporary curriculum. Were the resources vetted by other teachers, or are they your personal collection of resources that you have found useful? One of the PD courses that states can get from the IDEAL Support Center is a virtual study group built around critiquing web resources as a group, coming to consensus about their value for instruction. Currently we organize the reviews around strands in the GED, but using standards as the organizing theme may be better for us in the long run.

Weather update for Phoenix: 109. A few days ago it was 115!

I guess I'll stop complaining about Ann Arbor in July; it's cold by comparison.

Jerome Johnston

From: jerej@umich.edu
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3699] Distance Learning-Assessment 2
Date: July 21, 2005 2:35:42 PM EDT

Here's another question I received on assessment.

QUESTION 5. If you receive federal dollars then you should be adhering to the NRS, but I understand that this can be quite a challenge given the mismatch between the tests and the nature of learning/content within DL. What do you do in this circumstance?

The mismatch problem is not unique to distance education. It is problematic for classroom programs as well. In Project IDEAL's first working paper ("Assessment and Accountability Issues in Distance Education for Adult Learners" available on our website). We described how poorly many of the common standardized tests measured progress in the acquisition of workplace skills. Another area of potential mismatch is measuring progress toward the GED test using a standardized test such as the TABE that measures core reading and math skills, not mastery of science or social studies concepts needed for those subtests.

Where do you think the best and worst match occurs between the testing you must give and the curriculum you teach? Do you agree with me that the mismatch problem is equally relevant for the classroom and distance setting?

Jerome Johnston

From: jerej@umich.edu
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3698] Re: Distance Learning - Paper
Date: July 21, 2005 2:35:09 PM EDT

At 11:51 AM -0400 7/21/05, Bonnie Odiorne wrote: Colleagues,
My anecdotal evidence backs David on the use of paper by distance learners.

The IDEAL Support Center will have actual counts of media used in the near future. But our experience is that paper is frequently the most frequently used medium when a student is using a curriculum with multiple media, such as GED Connection. The workbook is the most familiar medium for students and it contains a majority of the instruction. That's why it is the one they won't do without. Learners sometimes aren't sure what they are supposed to get out of the video and the online requires the right circumstances to make access easy.

On the other hand, with a curriculum that has only an online portion, there is no choice--SkillsTutor, PLATO, McGraw Hill Contemporary, etc.

But, take Crossroads Cafe. The curriculum is billed as one where watching the videos is the most important learning activity for an ESL student. Although it comes with a workbook, the video probably gets a bit more of the student's time.

Jerome Johnston

From: rrusso@hcde-texas.org
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3700] RE: Distance Learning-Assessment 2
Date: July 21, 2005 2:47:31 PM EDT

Yes, I agree 100%. Assessment is a very big issue. Due to not having a choice, we must use assessment tools that do not match what our students need from the classroom. As states and the government move into performance based programs, it becomes a major issue. How to align our Curriculum to the assessment tools we must use and yet not lose sight of what adult learners really need to function in everyday life?

Renata

From: jerej@umich.edu
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3701] Distance Learning - New Technologies
Date: July 22, 2005 5:14:29 AM EDT

Here's another question I received. I can see from previous discussion on the listserv that many of you are excited by the potential of new technologies to improve access.

QUESTION: What are some emerging technologies that may make distance learning more accessible to adult learners?

I think accessibility may be helped more by improvements in existing technologies than by the introduction of new technologies. For learners, the important technologies are those that give inexpensive access to computers and the Web-technologies that are utilized by existing "distance curricula" such as GED Connection, GED Interactive (McGraw Hill Contemporary), GED Illinois, English for All, etc. When GED Connection was introduced in the late 1990s the video clips used in the online activities were available on CD-ROM for learners with Internet connections that were too slow to download video easily. Today there is little demand for the CD because most learners have access to faster Internet connections. The improvement was in the speed of connections available to adult learners.

Improvements in audio technologies (personal digital players such as iPod) might improve the distribution of audio files important to ESL learners, but these technologies would need to be in widespread use among ESL students before they could provide marginal improvement to learners who would otherwise listen to clips on a CD, DVD, videotape, audiotape, or listening to a mp3 clip online. Improvements in voice recognition hardware/software, coupled with AI, could provide ESL learners with frequent opportunities to get feedback on their language production. This would be a big help.

There is another important arena: technologies that connect distance learners with teachers who are supporting learners at a distance. Shared whiteboards might make it easier for teachers to provide remedial instruction when they recognize that a distance learner is having a problem with a concept. Technology that makes it easier for teachers to annotate the work that students submit online would help too.

We encourage teachers to consider setting up a virtual classroom using tools such as Nicenet (www.nicenet.org). This tool provides some of the features of a regular classroom. But many teachers report that studying alone is what attracted their students to distance in the first place, so a virtual classroom is not perceived as a benefit to them. However, because learning in a group (social learning) has been shown to be helpful in K-12 research I continue to think we need to try harder with adult learners.

The issue may be somewhat different if your distance program is already technology based. Many programs we work with are using a pre-packaged curricula (e.g., McGraw-Hill GED Interactive, Workplace Essential Skills, SkillsTutor, etc.). If you add another technology on top of the one associated with the curriculum you may overwhelm the learner.

What do you think? Do you see some new technologies that have some potential to improve access? Do you agree with my concern that too much technology can overload the learner.

Jerome Johnston

From: sbrennen@tiu11.org
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3702] counting Pre-GED Connection seat time
Date: July 22, 2005 10:15:18 AM EDT

Hi there,

I was wondering if you are using Pre-GED Connection in your state, how you count instructional hours for student work with Pre-GED Connection workbooks and/or Internet activities? If you use seat time, how many seat time hours are awarded for the completed activities? Any insights appreciated,

Sara

Sara P. Brennen
TIU Community Education Services
6395 SR103 North, Building 58
Lewistown, PA 17044
Phone: 717-248-4942, ext. 113
Fax: 717-248-8610
Email: sbrennen@tiu11.org <mailto:sbrennen@tiu11.org>

From: gilalit@cableone.net
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3704] RE: Distance Learning - New Technologies
Date: July 22, 2005 12:21:35 PM EDT

I would like to address the idea that too much technology can overwhelm the learner: I have found that students who are say 16 years to about 30 do very well with more technology and a variety all at the same time and I believe this is true because they "grew up on it". Most of them were using computers at a young age and were most likely exposed to video gaming, internet games, and messenger. They thrive on it. The older the adult education student is, the more they are overwhelmed and need to move slowly with technology only focusing on one thing at a time. They are usually the students who need more social interaction and one on one attention.

~ Cara Bryant, Director ~
Gila Literacy Program
P.O. Box 1707
Globe, AZ 85502
(928) 425-5301
gilalit@cableone.net
www.padistancelearning.org <http://www.padistancelearning.org/>

From: Tina_Luffman@yc.edu
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3706] RE: Distance Learning - New Technologies
Date: July 22, 2005 2:18:49 PM EDT

Hi everyone,

I do agree with Cara that some students can become overwhelmed with too much technology. These same students can get overwhelmed with too many study choices of any kind as well. This year we did limit ourselves to MHC Online and Skills Tutor, and most students stayed with just the MHC Online software program. A few students wanted books, so we recommended that they buy one complete GED or complete Pre-GED book to supplement those who feel the need for a paper backup source. I did have a few students who really liked the Skills Tutor program and decided to work primarily in that program. Students tended to limit themselves with the choices we gave them.

Tina

Tina Luffman

From: mariannf@lacnyc.org
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3707] Thank you Jere
Date: July 22, 2005 3:36:19 PM EDT

Jere and all,

This is the formally the last day of the moderated discussion on distancelearning led by Jere Johnston. Jere, thank you for leading a lively and informative discussion. Everyone who participated thank you for taking time out of your work and or vacation days to participate in the discussion. The discussion has been terrific. I would encourage everyone to continue lending your insights, experience and thoughts on the topics raised. Jere's last question to the list was,"Do you see some new technologies that have some potential to improve access? Do you agree with my concern that too much technology can overload the learner." Cara and Tina weighed in with their experiences of introducing technologies to learners. Does anyone else have a perspective on this?

Best regards and thanks again to Jere,

Mariann

From: smilin7@earthlink.net
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3708] Re: Distance Learning - New Technologies
Date: July 22, 2005 7:15:29 PM EDT

Hello all --

This is my first post to this discussion, although I've been saving bits and pieces of gleanings... Thank you all!

One thing I haven't noted (but may have missed) is reference to the use of Moodle, CMS (course management system) -- It is AWESOME!!! and FREE!!! (although you do need a server on 24-7 and capable enough to handle it). Moodle has helped me in ESL Conversation classes (12 classes so far have used it my Moodle) -- but I think it has HUGE potential to build community within struggling and challenged PreGED and GED groups as well --

and family literacy and workplace literacy -- I think it's a wonderful wave to ride! However, do share the funding concerns and implications for how to fit the pieces together.

www.moodle.org -- it was intimidating for me at first, but so enticing I kept at it -- I HIGHLY recommend it!!!

I'm in the final countdown hours (less than 24 to go now) of my year here in Korea -- and so I'm a little busy!

another comment -- I have found that the older adults I taught here were as enriched and as or more participitory than many of my younger students -- I think older adults could see the value more in the support network inherent in Moodles/CMS.

If you want to know more -- please feel free to contact me again in a couple of weeks -- just send me an email and I'll get back to you ASAP and let you visit one or more of the Moodles I've used with my classes.

Personally, I believe that mentoring and support/encouragement are crucial to success in online environments as well as f2f (face-to-face) environments. I'm very interested in research about online mentor/buddy systems -- and not finding a lot. I'm hoping to continue more focused research on this in the near future.

Thanks again to those who have made the time to keep this going -- these listservs are a vital component of my professional development -- resources posted by instructors and participants in online courses have been where I've learned the most about technologies.

Holly

Holly (Dilatush), also known as "Ms. D"

From: sbrennen@tiu11.org
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3710] FW: RE: Distance Learning - Assessment and
Date: July 25, 2005 9:44:38 AM EDT

Hi Jere,

Excellent discussion on the listserv last week...thank you!!! I also see having the content standards as an organizing principle as best representing what we are trying to do by integrating technology and distance learning into everyday instruction for teachers and students. Each state will probably have its own set of content standards. In PA we are currently working on content standards for adult ESL, and as far as I know ABE/GED content standards are on the horizon.

-Sara

From: bjgranger@smcps.org
Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3711] RE: counting Pre-GED Connection seat time
Date: July 25, 2005 10:21:44 AM EDT

I use the Pre-GED Math material with some of my distance students. I count it under supplemental material awarding 2 hours for partial completion and 4 hours for the total completion of a program.

Barbara Granger
Instuctional Specialist
St. Mary's County Public Schools
Adult Education Program
Maryland

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