The GED as a Measure of Achievement
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February 11 – 15, 2010
The GED as a Measure of Achievement
I'm not sure if this has been said yet, but I understand that the GED test itself
used to act as a post test. If this was the case, I think that it must have served
as an excellent way to show student gain, especially with students who may have
disconnected from an ABE program without taking a retest. Would there be any
consideration to reinstate such a policy that could very well work to demonstrate
student progress?
Vinnie Szymanski
Adult Learning Center
Good morning,
I agree that passing the GED should count as a measure of educational gain,
regardless of the entry level of the student.
Amy Peritsky
I'm sorry to disagree with you, but a large number of our students already have HS diplomas and are taking ABE courses because they cannot read or do math at a high enough level to enter vocational or post-secondary education. I do not believe that the GED was designed to measure progress or gains in specific areas the way reading or math assessments are, so we should be very careful about using such a lengthy, costly and stressful test for that purpose.
Thanks!
Kathleen Kelly
I can see both points. If a student already has a GED, then it’s certainly not appropriate to use the GED test to measure gain. If a student is a GED student and tests at an NRS level 6, the GED test is used to show completion of level 6. If a student’s pretest at a level 5, and only needs a few hours of REVIEW, we get penalized because they don’t need 60 hours of attendance (required by test mfg.) to give a post-test. If the student is ready to take the GED and scores high on a teacher made test, we should be able to show level gain or at least a completion when we send them to take the GED.
Rick Burgin
Casper College
I completely agree that using passing the GED exam as a measure of educational gain would not be appropriate for students who do not have the goal of obtaining a GED.
However, for programs where obtaining the GED is the student's goal, students sometimes do not show gain on their post-test (we use the TABE), or may fail to post-test, and still take and pass the GED exam. (In NY students can self-refer to take the GED exam.) Under current WIA regs, if the student's entry level is level 5 (Low Adult Secondary Education) or lower, passing the GED exam does not count as an educational gain. I am suggesting that for the students described above, it would be helpful if passing the GED could be used as an alternative method of measuring educational gain.
Amy Peritsky
Thanks Amy for clarifying this issue. I’m afraid I was inarticulate when I responded to this earlier. Of course the student needs to have a goal of GED. We would never send the student to take the GED test solely to measure educational gain!
Rick Burgin
I wouldn't advocate using the GED as a testing instrument unless that was a student goal, and they needed to obtain it for their futures. However, for those whose goal it is to obtain the GED, it should be a measurable achievement, outcome, met goal, whatever you want to call it. I've heard of programs that used the GED pre-tests (informally) in this way: as measures of progress and the ability to pay for this costly time consuming and stressful test. Believe me, I have now in post-secondary education many students with high school diplomas who cannot function at a level sufficient to do much of anything. Hence the need for ABE even for HS graduates. Entering post-secondary education may or may not be an appropriate goal, but the successful completion of a legitimate job training program as a measurable outcome can and should be "counted."
Bonnie Odiorne
Post University, Waterbury, CT
The largest gap in testing is the state's minimum graduation standards and GED scores do not meet the college readiness/entrance exam standards. If you have a chance to look at Lexlie.com and compare the test's reading requirements, then the gaps are more clearly defined. It seems all students, GED and high school graduates, who enter a community college, need some remediation. The GED test as an indicator of ability is not at fault, the whole assessment of college readiness is not aligned.
One in seven students at a community college is a GED student. In Texas, GED graduates were tracked to see if any GED student who enrolled into college placed outside of developmental math--not one in 9 years. On the other side, 1/3 or about 1 in 6 high school graduates entering a community place in developmental math. The GED exam is not the culprit of student's lack of college readiness. It is an indicator of their lack of readiness.
Lynda Webb
Lynda, Thank you for clarifying that. In fact, the problem now appears much broader than before regarding "entering post-secondary education" as a valid educational aim. Where, if anywhere, is there a listing of college preparedness standards. We would not be doing a service to our students to tell them they are prepared when they are not; if the standards are not aligned, whether in relation to the GED or not, we must try to target those skills most in need of remediation before they enter post-secondary ed; either that, and this is not under the auspices of WIA--though, to the extent that WIA-funded educated students are referred to us, it is--post-secondary institutions must be ready to realistically face this lack of alignment.
Bonnie Odiorne
Post University, Waterbury, CT
Bonnie,
I don't know of a compilation of college preparedness standards, but here's a link to the Washington State College Readiness Standards for Math: http://www.transitionmathproject.org/standards/index.asp .
Susan Kidd
State Board for Community & Technical Colleges
Surely the GED test itself...since it is longer than the other instruments (with more questions in each area, standardized grading of essays, etc.) is the best estimate of achievement that we use with the ABE students.
To then NOT use the GED test results, and to offer some test that means nothing to the student other than to "help us" measures something other than achievement...perhaps gratitude. :-)
The GED is our best measuring device, it is a stated goal of our programs, and we're not using it to measure achievement????
Dave Fowler
In my opinion one of the greatest challenges we face is the fact that only the students who pretest at the High Adult Secondary level can be counted as having obtained the GED credential. Many of our students pretest at a lower level (we use TABE) and, despite this are in fact ready to test – as shown by their success on the Practice GED and their class work. In the past when we were able to use the Practice GED as a pretest, more of our students fell into the High ASE category so it wasn’t as much of an issue. This year, however, we cannot use the Practice GED and it is really going to hurt us. To reiterate what someone else already posted, our main concern is with student outcomes and perhaps we shouldn’t be concerned that these folks don’t “count” for program accountability. But the fact is that we are being held accountable (as we should be) and I don’t think our programs should be penalized for working with students at the lower levels and helping them to pass the GED tests…we should instead be recognized for bringing these students who enter at lower levels to the place where they can be successful on the GED tests.
Kelly L. Okerlund
Seneca Highlands Intermediate Unit 9
Smethport PA
While I agree that assessments are very important and provide the instructors and students with guidance to the students’ individual educational path, these assessments really need to be utilized following the test makers recommended guidelines. I know that the assessment policies that states are now required to adhere to are completely different than what the programs have been used to, i.e., 60 hours of instruction before post testing, the GED is not the correct tool for assessing educational gain. The GED test is the correct tool for assessing post-secondary preparedness and workforce training goals.
Carolyn Chelsvig
Wyoming Community College Commission
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