Women's Literacy in Afghanistan Page 2
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From: mev@litwomen.org
Subject: RE: [WomenLiteracy] More on literacy programs in Afghanistan
Date: November 28, 2005 8:22:53 AM EST
To: womenliteracy@dev.nifl.gov
Hi Brenda and all,
I've been reading the posts on women in Afghanistan with great interest. It seems that in the last few months, I have been watching the "re-awakening" of women in Afghanistan -- not only among Afghan women -- but in their visibility to people in the United States!
Just in the past 3 months, WE LEARN has been approached about bringing representatives from RAWA to present at the WE LEARN conference (soooo wish we could afford that!), and to include some writings by Afghani women in our student health writing initiative on women's heath and well-being.
Also, this past October, I did a presentation for 10 Afghani women who had been hosted by ITD (Institute for Training and Development) in Amherst, MA to learn more about literacy teaching (in general, not only for women). WE LEARN did a presentation on women's literacy issues and resources. I only spent a few hours with them and wished I could have more time to learn more from them. They were both administrators and service-providers. The 10 women were from various NGOs -- several they had founded on their own -- as well as Afghani governmental organizations. Many served women only, but generally in the contexts of family and community. (Lisa's earlier observation that women's issues are raised within general contexts of health, etc. seemed true of this group.) They were particularly aware of women's issues, especially health concerns...and they were all eager and hungry to learn about whatever tools and resources for literacy teaching they could get during their 3 week stay in the U.S.
(btw - in reference to the previous discussion about attire...these women wore very colorful clothing, some wore head coverings, many did not, most all wore longer flowing dresses. I believe one woman wore slacks. It was clear they were dressing for Western convention and travel but still within the conventions of their personal taste and choice combined with Muslim convention.)
There were 2 things I found very interesting.
1) The first related to historical context. At some point in our discussion, I mentioned the Beijing conference on women -- now 10 years ago. I looked into a sea of blank faces and none of these women very active and well-informed women had even heard about the conference. These women were living under the Taliban at the time and so a very significant international event for women around the world totally passed by them. I began to think about how women in the U.S. also know little about this conference -- for a different set of reasons. It once again opens for me that tensions between the functional uses of literacy and the socio-political contexts of literacy for women.
2) During the opening introductions of the workshop, I asked each woman to introduce herself and her organization and to discuss how women and literacy issues intersect and how and what women's issues surface in the work they do. A number of issues emerged -- somewhat comparative to the issues that surface for women in literacy programs in the US (disease & health, economic development, pregnancy & childbirth, family support, etc.). But there was one significant difference. Inevitably, when this group of questions gets raised in a US context, what bubbles to the top with most frequency are the effects of domestic, sexual, and community violence on women's access to education and their ability to concentrate or stay engaged in learning situations. This was not the case among the women in the Afghan group I worked with. In fact, violence of any kind was mentioned only once and very much in passing -- which I find extremely curious given the continuous state of war in Afghanistan and women's lives under Taliban. I wondered if this was so because violence is so "normalized" (as Jenny Horsman might say) to the point where it's not discussed or even identified as an issue? or simply too painful to discuss??
So, finally, my question to Brenda...in your experience in working with women, do they talk about violence? or how do you see it affecting their learning? I know you can't speak for these 10 women and I don't want to generalize, but can you offer some perspective on this? As I say, violence so often surfaces in many conversations and writings about women's literacy and it was the absence of these issues in the discussion with this particular group of Afghan women that startled me.
thanks for moderating this discussion.
Mev
WE LEARN
Women Expanding: Literacy Education Action Resource Network
www.litwomen.org/welearn.html
Mev Miller, Ed.D., Director
182 Riverside Ave.
Cranston, RI 02910
401-383-4374
welearn@litwomen.org
From: alcdgg@langate.gsu.edu
Subject: Re: [WomenLiteracy] RE: Afghan women
Date: November 28, 2005 8:24:42 AM EST
To: womenliteracy@dev.nifl.gov
Thanks for all this interesting information! At the end of your post you indicate that: "... a two-day conference on eliminating violence against women was held this week." Was this conference made available to "nonacademics", or was it basically an academic type of conference? This made me think of another question. If women in the literacy programs in Afghanistan were asked to list their most burning women related issues in their lives, what do you think they would say?
Daphne
From: djgbrian@utk.edu
Subject: Re: [WomenLiteracy] RE: Afghan women
Date: November 28, 2005 10:30:51 AM EST
To: womenliteracy@dev.nifl.gov
Hi Brenda and all,
Hope all is well with all of you and that you all feel you have a lot to be thankful for.
On NPR this morning was a segment about Afghan refugees in Germany being sent back to Afghanistan, the German gov. having decided that they were no longer in danger there from the Taliban. The segment was saying this was especially hard on the Hindu Afghanis, since they did still feel they would surely suffer if sent back. It made me wonder about your programs and whether you have contact with Afgani women who are not Muslim.
Donna Brian
djgbrian@utk.edu
From: alcdgg@langate.gsu.edu
Subject: [WomenLiteracy] Re Afghan women
Date: November 28, 2005 6:57:58 PM EST
I am sending this on behalf of Belinda who is having difficulty posting to the list:
With regard to coed classrooms, in the US there are several public schools that offer classes that are held separately for boys and girls in secondary middle school. I was wondering if your secondary (middle school - highschool) classrooms where held separtately as are your adult classrooms. Belinda Edwards
Belinda P. Edwards
Instructor of Mathematics
Mailbox #1204
Kennesaw State University
Phone: 770-420-4727
Fax: 770-423-6629
From: mbaji@msn.com
Subject: RE: [WomenLiteracy] Re Afghan women
Date: November 28, 2005 11:19:31 PM EST
To: womenliteracy@dev.nifl.gov
The literacy program looks like a great thing for the Afghan women. I found Lisa's comment (posted on Nov 22nd) on the positioning of the program as "health education and literacy classes" particularly interesting. I was wondering if any of these women are viewed to be more educated than those not attending the program and if they have experienced any adverse consequences as a result?
Madhavi Baji
mbaji@msn.com
Original Message-----
From: womenliteracy-bounces@dev.nifl.gov
mailto:womenliteracy-bounces@dev.nifl.gov On Behalf Of Daphne Greenberg
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 6:58 PM
To: womenliteracy@dev.nifl.gov
Subject: [WomenLiteracy] Re Afghan women
I am sending this on behalf of Belinda who is having difficulty posting to the list:
With regard to coed classrooms, in the US there are several public schools that offer classes that are held separately for boys and girls in secondary middle school. I was wondering if your secondary (middle school - highschool) classrooms where held separtately as are your adult classrooms.
Belinda Edwards
Belinda P. Edwards
Instructor of Mathematics
Mailbox #1204
Kennesaw State University
Phone: 770-420-4727
Fax: 770-423-6629
From: cmcallister1225@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [WomenLiteracy] More on literacy programs in Afghanistan
Date: November 29, 2005 9:15:04 PM EST
To: womenliteracy@dev.nifl.gov
Dear Brenda,
I would think that those responses (see below) are expected. People who go back to school do usually want to "make the world a better place." I do have a question though. Besides quoting the Qu'ran, what other methods do you use to overcome the cultural obstacles? You mention that the classes are separated by gender; the problem is that they don't live in separate societies. Is there any attempt to allow the women to demonstrate their new sense of power that they have gained from their education?
Sorry, if it seems like I am rambling.
SIncerely,
Chris
From: viola64@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [WomenLiteracy] More on literacy programs in Afghanistan
Date: November 29, 2005 11:25:37 PM EST
To: womenliteracy@dev.nifl.gov
Brenda,
To continue from Chris' post, what is being done to help the women who want to become teachers, doctors, engineers, etc? After they finish the literacy program, will/are these women able to continue with their schooling and learn the profession they want?
In an unrelated question, what has been the biggest political stumbling block you've come across?
Thank you for being a guest facilitator, it's been very insightful.
Stephanie
From: BBell@edc.org
Subject: RE: [WomenLiteracy] catching up on email
Date: November 30, 2005 12:05:26 AM EST
To: womenliteracy@dev.nifl.gov
Chris, Stephanie, Donna, Mev - and others who have posted questions or comments recently ---
I will catch up with you soon! I am working under a deadline (yep! even in Afghanistan work is pressured sometimes!) and can't respond fully right now.
Quickly -- re: Chris' question on participation of women. In the Literacy and Community Empowerment Program in rural villages, girls and women are taking a more active role in community activities. Some of the participants in literacy classes are members of the women's community development council, using their new literacy skills to help with the CDC business -- writing minutes, developing a community development plan, developing proposals for infrastructure improvement projects. In some villages (more than half), the women's council works very closely with the men's council - they consult together on decisions affecting the village. I assume that the next time CDC elections are held, women who have been in the literacy classes will be more likely to considered for a seat on the council. Also -- from my recent field visits, I know that several women village teachers were candidates in the recent parliamentary elections.
Brenda
From: ldeyo@msh.org
Subject: RE: [WomenLiteracy] More on literacy programs in Afghanistan
Date: November 30, 2005 6:51:32 AM EST
To: womenliteracy@dev.nifl.gov
Hi,
As Brenda mentioned, people join literacy classes for many reasons - to be able to write letters, to keep better track of their money, etc. In terms of schooling, most of the women completing the literacy classes do not have the opportunity to continue their education. The Ministry of Education has a cut-off age for the children attending school in the lower grades. An accelerated program for age 12 and under has been established. Boys and girls - in separate classes - study in these classes until the 6th grade, they then continue on to the formal schools.
The Ministry of Women’s Affairs offers classes for young women who are married & have children on its compound in Kabul. There was a system of this type in previous years at the provincial level; I don’t know how extensive it was. The Ministry of Education Vital Literacy Department’s policy includes the possibility of attending adult classes up to the 9th grade. In practice, they are only using textbooks that take men and women up to the 3rd grade level. The Ministry certainly recognizes the need to educate adults beyond a 3rd grade level; however, their resources are slim.
There are efforts - or at least some discussion and interest - in creating programs on a small scale to educate men and women at the upper levels. One program was under discussion earlier; the intent was to educate the police force, both men and women; the minimum level of education varied according to rank. I don’t know how far along this program is. One of our programs recruits women with at least a sixth or seventh grade education and provides pre-training for community midwifery education. The number of women involved in this program is very small. The second program can take women up to a sixth grade equivalency in reading, writing, numeracy and some social sciences/health. We found that some of the women in these classes became primary school and literacy teachers. Focus, for the most part, has been on basic literacy. There is some funding for very basic literacy education integrated with other skills that people can use straight away.
Madhavi asked a question earlier about whether or not the women who attend literacy classes are viewed as more educated than others and if they have experienced adverse consequences…
It is impossible to generalize. Many families are very supportive of the women who attend the classes; they see the value of the women’s participation in the classes. They would like to see the basic literacy courses extended. Other families wonder what the economic benefit of attending classes will be. The staff found that some of the women in the areas where carpet weaving brings in income have faced resistance from family members because they don’t see the value of this type of education. Other family members, however, have helped them to go to class. The women in the more conservative southern provinces face an altogether different scenario. Security is a real concern; the organizations running the program, the women learners, the trainers have the potential of facing adverse consequences, just because they promote the education of women. In one province, the literacy organization runs 5 separate facilitator trainings in homes rather than one large facilitator training in the provincial capital, as is done in the other provinces. This is done for security concerns; the women can’t be seen as working for a non governmental organization.
Best,
Lisa
From: lalumineuse@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [WomenLiteracy] More on literacy programs in Afghanistan
Date: November 30, 2005 10:11:09 AM EST
To: womenliteracy@dev.nifl.gov
Dear Chris,
You mention that the classes are separated by gender; the problem is that they don't live in separate societies. Is there any attempt to allow the women to demonstrate their new sense of power that they have gained from their education?
Your question interests me, especially the choice of phrase, "demonstrate their new sense of power".... and "... they don't live in separate societies". I'd like to share my views on this based on my experiences in South Asia. And I would be curious to understand what you see as a demonstration of power gained from literacy.
Separate societies: Having spent time in our projects in the NWFP of Pakistan, a social structure very similar to Afghani society, I have learned a lot about separate societies. For the first time, in market places, I saw no women. In most agrarian societies, the informal economy is run by women, whereas in lots of the NWFP, even market vendors were men. Whilst driving through some congested areas, I was asked to cover my face even when sitting in a moving car. One of the reasons that girls are not allowed to come to school are because either the teacher is a male or there are no loos for girls or if girls and boys have to sit next to one another. Separate societies exist, and quite happily. It took me a little getting used to and once I understood the degree to which purdah worked both ways (e.g. a North American friend of mine, married to a Pathan man who lives now in Pakistan apologised for not inviting me to her home as it would embarass her husband.), it was easier to accept the separate societies. I also found that this style of life (and I refuse to call it conservatism because that would imply that the life I lead is "liberal" or "free" in a different sense) fascinating, the politics, the hierarchy, the power wielded by women and the control they exert from behind their veil and mud walls.
"Demonstrate the sense of power": In working with women in South Asia, the sense of power from education i.e being able to read, write and calculate, is often a personal one. It is seen as a personal victory, as if "they were suddenly gifted vision", and "..despite having wings, being able to fly unafraid for the first time". I think power manifests itself in subtle ways. Breaking the house is one way, expanding the house, another.
Literacy alone does not equal power, or else why would we have Mom's taxi, the overworked daughter-in-law in Indian middle class families, the overworked woman in middle class families all over the world. What I still find surprising is that the women's movement across the world has made strides, but we don't have a similar movement for men.
And now, I am rambling! Ujwala
From: lalumineuse@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: [WomenLiteracy] catching up on email
Date: November 30, 2005 10:15:03 AM EST
To: womenliteracy@dev.nifl.gov
Hi Brenda,
One of the founders of AWEC (Afghan Women's Education Centre) Shinkai Zahine, just won the election. She is an incredibly dynamic woman...
Quickly -- re: Chris' question on participation of women. In the Literacy and Community Empowerment Program in rural villages, girls and women are taking a more active role in community activities. Some of the participants in literacy classes are members of the women's community development council, using their new literacy skills to help with the CDC business -- writing minutes, developing a community development plan, developing proposals for infrastructure improvement projects. In some villages (more than half), the women's council works very closely with the men's council - they consult together on decisions affecting the village. I assume that the next time CDC elections are held, women who have been in the literacy classes will be more likely to considered for a seat on the council. Also -- from my recent field visits, I know that several women village teachers were candidates in the recent parliamentary elections.<<
Women are often very active in Village Education Committees as well and these run the village schools. We tend to recruit them as teachers and train them.
Ujwala
From: ryanryanc@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [WomenLiteracy] More on literacy programs in Afghanistan
Date: November 30, 2005 10:22:56 AM EST
To: womenliteracy@dev.nifl.gov
Ujwala,
What do you mean by "but we don't have a similar movement for men"?
Ryan
From: lalumineuse@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [WomenLiteracy] More on literacy programs in Afghanistan
Date: November 30, 2005 1:31:28 PM EST
To: womenliteracy@dev.nifl.gov
Ryan,
[you wrote] "What do you mean by 'but we don't have a similar movement for men'?"
Women's movements tend to exclude men. Western feminist movements have typically done so and the term 'gender' is used in lieu of or often referring to women/girls/females. In the Third world, my experience of feminist movements or movements for social change was a real eye opener. Women, especially poor women had no desire to exclude men from their efforts towards equity. The notion that the sexes are different is accepted but equal is not. The same women who taught me about the difference between education and literacy, explained their perceptions of equity and equality. What they looked for was equity, or fairness regardless of their gender. Equality was a completely different issue to them. In their eyes, no social change would ever endure unless they included their men, young and old. Hence they preferred to have young men as tutors, as social interpreters and with delicate negotiations (I learned a lot about diplomacy in my years in the slums) they earned the support of the older men as well.
In a different example, in the Himalayan foothills, in one of our projects, I've seen women and men as healers, as teachers, as parents and a number of them attend life skills classes to share everything from childbirth to cooking, farming and market work as well as administering the village school in between.
Aside from the research I found in the 1990s for my research, my own observations after living in the US and France showed me that with so-called liberation and 'equality', the division of labour between men and women had not changed. Women just found additional work and labour attached to their already considerable (traditional) workload.
The point I am making is that for lasting social change, men have to be included in any movement. Whether they need a separate movement for this, I don't know. But whilst I see some difference in male roles, I still see a majority of our work roles, salaries earned, who stays at home being decided in a traditional manner.
I am not saying there were no valid reasons for a women's movement to be exclusive. I just found what I learned when I returned to India for that prolonged length of time, fascinating, turning all my theoretical work in the US on it's head. Opened my eyes to the spectrum of what is power, empowerment, social change, equity and equality.
Regards,
Ujwala
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