YoungAdultsinESOLClasses
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This discussion was held on the National Institute for Literacy English Language discussion list beginning on February 8th, 2006.
From: lterrill@cal.org
Subject: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescent learners in adult ESL/ESOL classes discussion begins
Date: February 8, 2006 7:10:10 AM EST
Dear subscribers,
I want to welcome Sarah Young of the Arlington Education and Employment Program (REEP) and the Center for Applied Linguistics and thank her for facilitating this week's discussion on adolescents in adult ESL/ESOL classes.
Please read Sarah's introductory comments below and share your own experiences, questions, and advice.
Thanks,
Lynda Terrill
English language list moderator
lterrill@cal.org
One focus on this discussion list in the next few days will be the characteristics and needs of adolescent ELLs and how we can serve them better in our adult ESL programs. The following questions are introduced in my brief "Adolescent learners in adult ESL classes" (www.cal.org/caela) and will be addressed and expanded on throughout the course of our discussion. Please share your own answers, experiences, questions, and ideas on this topic as well.
Who are adolescents in adult ESL classes? - Some adolescent immigrants arrive in the United States with limited or interrupted schooling in their native countries. Research shows that even students with considerable schooling in their own countries still need four to seven years of instruction in the U.S. in order to become academically and socially proficient in English. - Other adolescent ELLs are born and/or raised in the U.S., but for a variety of reasons never managed to gain the academic and literacy skills and content knowledge needed to succeed in high school or to reach English proficiency (these students are sometimes referred to as Generation 1.5, because they share characteristics of both first-generation and native born English speakers). - In 2003-2004, 14% of all enrollees in adult education programs (ESL, ABE, ASE) were students aged 16 to 18.
Why are adolescent ELLs in adult ESL classes? Many factors contribute to adolescent ELLs' inability or unwillingness to begin or continue a course of study in a traditional secondary school. Consider: - Nineteen states currently require exit exams for high school graduation, and seven others are planning to implement an exit exam by 2012. - One study found that in K-12 districts with a 9% or higher population of ELLs, the overall high school graduation rate was only 60%. - 56 percent of ELLs in grades 6-12 are second or third generation citizens (i.e., born and raised in the U.S.).
How might adolescent ELLs differ from adult ELLs? - Developmental characteristics such as insecurity, self-consciousness, over-sensitivity, poor decision-making and communication skills, impatience, lack of foresight - Varied cultural interests, technological savvy, and limited or different life experiences - Academic, linguistic, and literacy skills may not be completely developed in their native languages - Need may be stronger for mentoring and guidance in transitioning to other educational levels and in making choices about their personal lives and career paths
What training do adult ESL teachers working with adolescents need? How can classroom instruction and assessment support adolescent ELLs? What other educational opportunities are available and necessary for adolescent ELLs?
Please join us in discussing these questions and more!
Sarah Young
Center for Applied Linguistics
4646 40th St. NW
Washington, DC 20016
Phone: (202) 362-0700 ext. 529
Fax: (202) 362-3740
Web: www.cal.org
Email: sarah@cal.org <mailto:sarah@cal.org>
From: ABernier@slis.sjsu.edu
Subject: [EnglishLanguage] FEB 15-22, 2006 FOB discussion information
Date: February 8, 2006 4:38:02 PM EST
I'd be interested to engage discussion about how adolescents negotiate and
cope with their complex roles as cultural/linguistic translators in everyday
circumstances with their non-English speaking parents and grandparents.
Anthony Bernier, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
School of Library and Information Science
San Jose State University
ABernier@SLIS.SJSU.edu
From: MFlorez@arlington.k12.va.us
Subject: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 8, 2006 6:00:28 PM EST
I think it's interesting to consider that many of these students may legitimately be caught between adolescence and adulthood. I have encountered students in the past who are 16 or 17 and have produced documentation that shows that they have completed high school in their countries. They are here, working with adults, as adults, perhaps living with cousins or friends and paying rent, bills, etc. Some even have children already. When they come into our classes, much of what we teach--language and content--seems relevant to them. But developmentally, contextually, they are out of sync. They aren't at the same place that our adult learners are. Does anyone have any suggestions of how they work to mediate that?
Thanks!
MaryAnn Florez
Arlington, VA
glenda@english-now.us
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 8, 2006 11:36:37 PM EST
I run into this all the time. A lot of it has to do with misunderstanding the school system. My students have graduated "la secundaria" which looks an awful like Secondary (High) school but actually means middle school. So the public schools won't let them in but they need English. Personally, I haven't had any trouble with them in the adult classes, except occasionally leaving some of the older students in the dust with how fast the retain vocabulary. I alway ask if they have TRIED to get into the high school first. I really feel that's where they need to be, but if they can't get in and they want to learn, I'm going to let them. Our program is mainly self-paced and self-directed, so perhaps that's why we haven't encountered to many problems with them being at a different developmental level from the adults. Besides, many of them have adult responsibilities - taking care of siblings, being the bread winner, etc. I think they add something to our learning community.
Glenda L. Rose
Director, English Now
www.english-now.us
From: robinschwarz1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 9, 2006 1:37:35 AM EST
The out-of-sync part was painfully true for the Sudanese group I was
well acquainted. Sometime teachers were quite aware of these
differences, but often they were not. The Sudanese, badly wanting an
education, were patient with it.
Robin S.
From: ylerew@aol.com
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 9, 2006 8:56:20 AM EST
Could you tell me more about your comment youth have tried to get into
high school but they can't get in. Why is that so? It sounds that
they within the age of attendance. Is it just a
misunderstanding/translation problem about "secondaria"? If so, is
there a need for educating the school district personnel around that?
Or is the district reluctant to admit even those under 21 (or whatever the year is in your state) that the district feels may not succeed or graduate? In SD, we encountered the attitude that if students were over 18 (even over 16 in some cases) and didn't have transferrable credits, the high schools strongly discouraged them from entering and referred them to adult ed programs instead.
I agree with you, that for many young people, high school would be a better option than adult ed. Given the limited funding of adult ed, and therefore limited hours of instruction provided, high school can offer more. High schools have everything from science labs to subsidized lunches, none of which exist in adult ed. Also, those youth that need more adult guidance and supervision may not get that support in adult ed.
On the other hand, some young people with adult responsibilities (say they are working until past midnight and don't wake up for school in the morning) may start in a traditional high school but eventually drop out. Or those that are significantly older, in years and in maturity, than their high school peers may not feel that they fit in high school.
What are other people's thoughts about this decision regarding high school versus adult ed? Who should make the decision? What information is needed? What is the role of those of us in adult ed in this decision?
Also, I would be interested in learning about other options people have found that work for ESOL youth. What about Job Corps, Alternative High Schools, YouthBuild?
Thanks!
Yvonne Lerew
From: sarah@cal.org
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 9, 2006 10:38:16 AM EST
It does seem that it's difficult to find districts that will allow older adolescents to enroll in high schools. In my experience with a few high school programs in the suburbs of Washington, DC., they will allow older adolescents to stay in high school if they demonstrate commitment to their education and don't prove to be discipline problems. One of my adult ESL students, a young guy in his late 20s, is married to another immigrant who attends one of the local high schools. She is 24. She's one of only two older students at the high school, and it's no secret that she is a lot older than the other students, but many of them look up to her as a role model.
Is anyone out there working at a newcomer high school or a transitional ESL high school? Is there anything we can take from those programs and use in our adult ESL classes, for those adolecents who aren't able to enroll in one of these alternative ed programs? From what I understand, newcomer schools tend to provide a shorter length of intensive English and content instruction in order to "catch students up" as quickly as possible and prepare them to join a traditional high school program. Newcomer schools often focus their services on those students who had limited schooling in their countries. Transitional ESL high schools tend to be for older students who may not be able to attend traditional high schools for work or family reasons, but who need focused English instruction in order to join an adult secondary education program.
Glenda Rose mentioned the difference between how much faster some young adults learn English vocabulary than their older counterparts. If it's true, as we see in our own experiences, that adolescents might be able to acquire a second language faster than some older adults, how can we pair adolescents and adults together in an adult ESL class so that the adults can benefit from some of the adolescents' language skills and the adolescents can benefit from the adults' life skills?
Sarah Young
Center for Applied Linguistics
From: lterrill@cal.org
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 9, 2006 11:01:52 AM EST
Hello,
The following comment, question, and suggestions are from Maria Zlateva:
Lynda Terrill
lterrill@cal.org
ESL teachers typically notice - and diagnose - a gaping discrepancy between the speaking and writing ability of adolescent students (especially Generation 1.5). Students who were raised in this country have impressive fluency but lack awareness of the conventions of academic writing and overall academic etiquette. Those traits are hard to reconcile with the more writing-oriented ability of adult students in a typical ESL class.
What training should ESL teachers undertake to meet both ends of the spectrum?
Suggestions: mini-workshops on diction, register, grammar usage in specific communities, etc.
Maria Zlateva, ESL Director CAS Writing Program, BU
and Assistant professor, English Dept., BU
236 Bay State Rd., Boston, MA 02215
tel. (617)353-2511
mariazl@bu.edu
From: bryan@cal.org
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 9, 2006 11:40:31 AM EST
Hello,
Following up on Sarah's comments, I think Montgomery County Public Schools allow students up to age 21 to be enrolled in high school, however, my students in the former MCPS Adult ESOL & Literacy/GED program who are younger (17 has the youngest for me so far) aren't always aware of this and take the free/discounted ESOL classes in hopes of moving through to the ABE/GED classes instead. They also don't need documentation (we don't ask for certain information or ID's), which I think they would need if they did go to high school. Since we are now part of Montgomery College, they can also transition to MC courses, provided they have documentation. Our program and the college are also working on bridging the ESL courses to make the transition easier.
Bryan
Bryan Woerner
BEST Plus Operations Assistant
bryan@cal.org
From: glenda@english-now.us
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 9, 2006 12:38:31 PM EST
I wish I knew what the real problem was. One parent told me that they were told that mandatory education was only to 16 so their children didn't qualify. Another told me that they were told that since their child had graduated "secundaria" they couldn't attend. Still another was able to get her twin daughters in - but they were mainstreamed within 3 months and not at the English level they needed to stay in. I definitely think it is an area for research and may be something I take up when I finish my dissertation this year.
If anyone else knows why the independent school districts of Texas discourage Mexican teens 16 and over from entering high school, I'd love to hear the real answer.
ylerew@aol.com wrote:
Could you tell me more about your comment youth have tried to get into
high school but they can't get in. Why is that so? It sounds that
they within the age of attendance. Is it just a
misunderstanding/translation problem about "secondaria"? If so, is
there a need for educating the school district personnel around that?
From: glenda@english-now.us
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 9, 2006 12:40:22 PM EST
I just want to emphasize that the vocabulary is the only area I've noticed a real difference. As far as learning grammar structures, speaking and writing, I haven't noticed that "the kids" have any advantage over their older counterparts.
glenda@english-now.us
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 9, 2006 12:46:46 PM EST
I know I've had "native" speakers come to learn "academic English" from our organization - which is designed to teach ESL. Some of these people were generation 1.5 but some were African American. I think we need to look at how the school systems are setting expectations for these groups rather than add to the ESL. Freire emphasized the importance of encouraging the oppressed to find a language of struggle so that they can be heard and initiate change.
The sad thing to me about generation 1.5 is they generally cannot read and write well in the heritage language either. What a world of opportunity we're closing to these groups when we don't teach them how the business and academic world expects language to be presented.
From: MFlorez@arlington.k12.va.us
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 9, 2006 1:10:13 PM EST
I suspect it might be a little of all of your suggestions, depending on the case: lack of understanding--on both sides--of home country educational documents and their equivalencies here (although here just outside of DC, I think most school systems have a pretty good grip on that now); questions of age, residence (related to the school system, not immigration status, per se); lack of understanding of full options and what might most benefit the particular person; lack of informed advocacy for the student; etc.
One example: a seventeen-year-old came to our program and wanted to enroll. She had tried to register for high school, even though she said that she had finished "high school" in her home country. She was here living with her sister, who was not designated as a legal guardian. She said the school intake office said that they could not enroll her because she did not have a legal guardian. She and her sister did not seem to want to pursue beyond that and came to us because they had seen a flyer about our program. We suggested high school completion, but she said that she wanted to find a job and did not want to commit to that. She also felt she didn't need it, as she had completed high school in her country.
It can be quite a mix of factors.
MaryAnn Florez
From: bkubota@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 9, 2006 9:27:18 PM EST
A few times when I've had a student age 16 or 17, I suggested they try to
get into the local high school where they could get full time free
education. Unfortunately they weren't allowed because they didn't live with
a legal guardian.
If they are living with a brother or uncle, that person would have to get legal guardianship in order to register them here in the Chicago suburb of Rolling Meadows at least. Has anyone else run into this problem?
Betsy Kubota
Harper College
Palatine, IL
From: dottie@shattuck.net
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 9, 2006 10:36:34 PM EST
We're having a similar problem here in Charlotte, NC.. As a refugee
resettlement agency, our caseworkers take the newly arriving families to the
public school "international" office to enroll the children & then to the
assigned schools. Since Aug., we've had 3 or 4 young Montangard boys/men
(18-19 yrs.) rejected by the local high school. Although NC law apparently
allows kids to remain in H.S. until age 21, admitting them after turning age
18 is "at the principal's discretion." To add insult to injury, some of
their birthdays are "government issued" (1-1- 19xx). [If the date were
later, say 12-12-19xx, the boys would have been admitted.]
We're concerned that they're being rejected because of a perceived "inability to succeed" - especially w/all the mandated testing. The caseworkers & I think they'd benefit greatly from the 6 hrs./day of classes, esp. since we can offer only 3-6 hrs. /week of classes.
On the other side, we've had a recently-arrived 16 yr. old (who was in high school) quit because he wanted to work & help his family when his dad was laid-off. Now we're having trouble getting him back into school.
Are there no good answers for these kids?
Dottie Shattuck
HIAS-NC
From: bmoon@teachertech.us
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 10, 2006 12:18:04 AM EST
When I worked in a charter school a few years ago, we had students who were 16 and had less than a year of high school credits. They had been refused entry by the district high school The rationale was that the students lacked the credits to complete the normal program in a timely manner. I had the impression that the high school feared that the students might become a discipline problem if they were 19 or 20 and still in high school.
Bruce Moon
Rio Linda, CA
From: glenda@english-now.us
Subject: Re: [EnglishLanguage] Adolescents in adult ESOL classes
Date: February 10, 2006 8:54:06 AM EST
You remind me off a situation that occurred back in 1995. I had allowed a young lady (17) to move in with me because her mother ... well, there were some issues. It was like moving heaven and earth to get her enrolled in school. I finally had to write and have notarized a letter stating that I would take responsibility for her with regards to any problems she caused in school. I think I was only allowed to do so because I knew the Superintendent of the school system and had so many friends in the system. I can imagine that apart from these advantages, it would be a daunting task to try and get an unaccompanied minor into a high school.
